This is the thread in question: Domestic Violence in the Military

Hi Everybody,

This message is to respond to Anthony's & Kathy's comments in another thread about dynamics between victims and their abusers. I believe the phrase that was used by both of you was something along the lines of it 'taking two to tango'.

Ack!

I didn't want to respond to it in that thread because I think we were digressing quite a bit from the spirit of the original thread, which was to support someone who was feeling really alone and isolated, but, I just couldn't just let it slip by either, hence this shiny new thread.

And yes, as the word "controversy" implies, I vehemently disagree, or at least I think I do, because, I guess it depends on what you meant.

If your comments are meant to mean that victims of abuse aren't sort of like Mary Poppins ("Practically Perfect in Every Way"). Then, yes, of course, I agree with you. Everyone is human, we all have bad hair days and we've all done and said things that we regret.

But, that is a pretty obvious thing to say. So, I don't think that is what you were getting at, especially given that it was embedded within a conversation about domestic abuse. In which case, I think (and please correct me if I am wrong here) that what you are implying is that victims egg on their abusers. Which is another way of saying that sometimes victims "ask for it". In other words, it is blaming the victim.

I am assuming that you aren't just talking about ordinary healthy expressions of anger or disagreement. This forum is chock full of that, so I am assuming that you both would agree that that disagreement is healthy and okay and that hitting someone just because the won't do and say what you want them to do, is over the top wrong.

What I think that what you two are talking about, is when one partner is emotionally abusive and the other is physically abusive. Does the emotional abuse some how make it more okay for the physically abusive partner to hurt his/her partner?

And, I have to say, and I can't do it emphatically enough. No! Absolutely, no!
-- I had boyfriend make disrespectful comments at me. It doesn't mean I felt compelled to hit him. It means I asked him to stop nicely and when he persisted in doing it, I broke up with him. That simple.

Letting abusers off by pretending that they were driven to do what they did plays into their mentality. That is how abusers think, they don't take responsibility for their actions. "S/he made me do it." In fact the two most common excuses abusers make are, "S/he deserved it," and "I didn't hit that hard,"

No, I am not justifying emotional abuse. It is not okay. Really, not. It is hurtful and we deserve to feel emotionally safe as well as physically safe. (those are the minimum requirements, really, we deserve a lot more in our relationships, like love, support, etc.).

But, does that in any way justify physically abusing someone? - absolutely not!! That is just another way of saying that sometimes: Might makes right - which I think, when put that way, just sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

The only time physical violence is okay is in self defense from physical violence (or defense of your children / someone more helpless than you). And THEN using only reasonable force.

(Okay, truth be told, if it involved children, I probably would use more than reasonable force.)

What is interesting to me is that both of you have admitted to suffering physical abuse from a partner in the past. So, I am wondering if maybe your comments are really about not yet having fully come to terms with what happened at those times?

By blaming ourselves for violence that was done to us, we make it something we can control, so we are not "victims" because we had a choice. We tell ourselves that we can choose differently (alter our own behaviour) next time.

I know that I did this, and since most of the stuff that happened to me was when I was a) way too young to be responsible for anything; and b) stuff that could in no way warrant what happened to me, I know in my situation that my thinking was distorted. But, I learned in therapy that it is a very common coping mechanism, which helps get you through the abusive situation at the time, but needs to be unlearned once you are in a safe place.

You both from what I've read of your posts seem really overall to be healthy, and very supportive and caring with the people who find their way to this website. But just because you have done a lot to work through your traumas, does not mean that there aren't still areas that still need to worked on and healed. Especially if reading this makes you uncomfortable or angry, then it is a sign that it is hitting close to home.

This is really important issue, because people out there who are still in the violent situation might be reading these notes, and I really don't want anyone who is being hit to think that anything they are doing could justify that.

KM