Hi KM, well written, though I must mix this around a little due to what need be stated so that you do understand what is being said.

So you are aware, this does not make me uncomfortable at all, nor angry. Actually what you are saying for the most part is exactly what I was saying, yet you are missing this and maybe actually confusing your experience with the intent here.

Do you think people with trauma acknowledge the obvious easily? That is why the very obvious is stated here time over, because people over complicate their thinking, they look for things that are often much harder than the truthful easy, as you say "obvious" aspect that is right in front of them. When you read many things I turn around on people, their own words that is, you typically find many people state the problem and the answer in the same sentence, yet until someone shows them the "obvious" answer which is their own, they just miss it. So what you saying about "obvious" stems it own realms off issues when tied to trauma.

Now this is exactly what I am saying, and this is exactly what I believe you are now reverting to your own experience. My experience of being physically abused by my ex-wife was a five and a bit foot girl hitting me as hard as she could, throwing heavy objects at me which I typically ducked, though sometimes hit me, though never could she really do much damage too me providing I could see her and what she was doing. I was simply to fast and strong for her to hurt me too much, but that does not excuse her act so to speak, which makes it physical abuse nonetheless.

What your confusing here is you are implying that the conversation is about you, that when either myself or Kathy make such a statement that both parties can egg on the other for abuse, being as you say "they asked for it" is that your missing key words, key aspects of the conversation and completely taking only one aspect to your experience, your feelings, and your making it about you. You think Kathy and myself are saying "all" victims ask for it. That is nothing like what either are saying, and I speak for Kathy loosely only, in that she will answer for herself with her own opinions and thoughts no doubt.

"Some" couples get into an abusive cycle where each other actually "intentionally" do nasty and hurtful things to one another so that the abuse cycle continues. The reason why "some" abusive relationships do that is because that is what they know in order to get attention, to get what they now even can see as affection from their partner. That may sound scary to you, but that is the factual and proven truth of "some" domestic violence relationships. Literally, neither one can live without the abuse, whether physical or emotional, that is how they have learned to communicate and function. Not everything is about physical abuse, which I believe you are implementing your own experience into this equation KM... and possibly need to step back and look at the bigger picture of abusive relationships outside your own experience. Do some reading on this and you will find exactly what is being said here is fact, is the truth as it stands.

You need to look at the key indicators, key words, "some", words which are not about you but about an entire picture of abuse. The facts are, a lot of abusive relationships actually stem a cycle of abuse from one another, in that one or the other intentionally provoke the other partner to get a reaction, whether that be physical or emotional, a reaction nonetheless. Does that statement however state, "all abusive relationships?" No. It is a common pattern found in certainly many abusive relationships, but not all, and nor am I stating a "majority" here either. Please read carefully.

Abuse comes in many shapes and sizes, the pattern or provoking does also. It can come from a disgruntled partner hiding the car keys from the other because an argument they had the night before. That means, by doing that act one has now actively engaged the other to provoke them, to cause them intentional torment. The reason is because lets say the other party decided to come home late, had an argument and one party now feels emotionally hurt, hurtful things where said. Those statements in themselves, those hurtful words we say in an argument, they are said to "intentionally provoke" the other person, otherwise we wouldn't say them, we would assert what we feel, not try and hurt the other party.

Do you see how basic it becomes? Can you understand its not just about physical abuse, it stems much greater than that?

This topic I knew would cause this, I knew people would look at it quite narrowly and most likely apply it to their own situations, tell themselves such things like, "OMG, is Kathy and Anthony saying I deserved it? Are they saying I asked for it?" These type of things.

The facts are though, some abuse is just abuse, some abuse stems from being abused and hurt, some abuse is just vendictive, the list is quite long and complex, but you must understand that it can be from hiding the keys to cause frustration, to intentionally not respecting one another as people, to emotional or physical abuse, to any act that is caused to intentionally cause another hurt or pain, especially when the act is because they hurt you first. That is what is being articulated in these statements.

I hope that gives you a better understanding of such a statement KM, and that you not apply that statement as words from either to your situation or experience, but look beyond yourself to the overall pattern of abuse, the facts of abuse that are outside your experience.