Canadian Burning of The American Whitehouse 1812 & The US National Anthems Origins

[anthony]

I think this must be raised, as most Americans I believe do not know this information, or deny it; so here are the facts of the only country to ever burn down the American White House in war, as victory.
Canadians remember the war as a victory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812) in avoiding conquest by the Americans as well as burning down the White House, while Americans celebrated a new spirit of national unity.

Next point... do most Americans know where their National Athem arose from? Well, here it is:
Having destroyed Washington's public buildings, including the White House and the Treasury, the British army next moved to capture Baltimore, a busy port and a key base for American privateers. The subsequent Battle of Baltimore began with a British landing at North Point, but the attack was repulsed, and General Ross was killed. The British also attempted to attack Baltimore by sea on September 13 but were unable to reduce Fort McHenry, at the entrance to Baltimore Harbor. All the lights were extinguished in Baltimore the night of the attack, and the fort was bombarded for 25 hours. The only light was given off by the exploding shells over Fort McHenry, which gave proof that the flag was still over the fort. The defense of the fort inspired the American lawyer Francis Scott Key to write a poem that would eventually supply the lyrics to "The Star-Spangled Banner", which became the national anthem of the United States in 1931.

[TinCanCommando]

Hell yes, we claim victory in that war! :-) I am damn proud to hail from the only country that has ever successfully destroyed the White House...

I remember learning of the origin of the US national anthem in school. I thought it was quite common knowledge. Then again, maybe not.

Cheers, Brian

[Scott_Fraser]

From what I remember it was solely British Forces who came down from Canada to fight this war. As I believe that Canada did not have an army then.
Scott:hello:

[cookie]

yeah, canada was "owned" by the british then, just llike the us was in the beginning. i live about an hour from Ft. McHenry, and DC, etc. lots of history info up here. and 10 min.s down the road is Harper's Ferry (civil war), and the town i live in is where John Brown was tried, same courthouse still there.

[becvan]

From what I remember it was solely British Forces who came down from Canada to fight this war. As I believe that Canada did not have an army then.
Scott:hello:

Canada WAS British until ohhh.. the 1950's or there about... We are still part of the commonwealth now.. So uh yeah, that was us...

bec

[anthony]

There are 50+ countries in the Commonwealth, 30+ of these member countries are small states most of which the population numbers less than 1.5 million people. There are more than 1.7 billion people in the Commonwealth though.

The Commonwealth is made up off: Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei Darussalam, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Fiji, The Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Kingdom, Vanuatu, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

If you wanted to talk factual data, the Commonwealth is actually the most powerful conglomerate upon the Earth, more powerful than the USA or Russia.

USA Population: Approx 298 million
Russian Population: Approx 143 million

China is the only country that comes close to the populous of the Commonwealth, at around 1.4 Billion people.

[TinCanCommando]

From what I remember it was solely British Forces who came down from Canada to fight this war. As I believe that Canada did not have an army then.


Well actually it wasn't soley British forces Scott, there were also Canadian provincial forces of the time, mainly from what was then Upper and Lower Canada, a militia made up of Canadian settlers and British loyalists, and the native Indians, who fought alongside as well.

I agree with bec and anthony, the Commonwealth is a very large entity, of which Canada is a part. In fact Canada was not completely self-governing until British parliament passed the Canada Act in 1982. So, if you want to use the argument that the British "owned" Canada, then you would also have to say that no Canadians fought in WWI, WWII or Korea.

[Scott_Fraser]

I think that the people in Quebec have a different view, they've wanted self rule for years. Are the Canadians still as loyal to the Queen as the Brits are?
Cheers
Scott:hello:

[Marlene]

You know, it's funny. What's a major point of national pride/historical significance to one country or group is a lot of times barely even a blip on the radar of the other parties involved.

Examples:

The American Revolution is big time for history teachers here in the states. In England, it's just barely touched on. This was the birth of our nation (and big stuff to us), but no big woo to history teachers in England.

The war of 1812 is also big history for us, but hardly any mention in English history. The signing of the Treaty of Ghent (ended war of 1812) was overshadowed by the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo. Bigger news gets bigger headlines.

Reading that it's a point of Canadian pride about their part in the war of 1812-that wasn't taught to me in my history class. Never would have known it until I read up on it. I guess that covers my 'learn something new everyday' for today.

Here in Florida, the two Seminole Wars are barely written about in the history books, but are listed as victories. The tribal history has a much different take on it.

There's a lot more examples and I could go on and on...but I won't. LOL Being the daughter of a military historian, I cut my teeth on this stuff and it's something that's always interested me.

History has always had one major flaw...it's written by the winners.

[anthony]

Marlene, not the wikipedia, which is where this information is. That is written from actual archives and only factual references, not just pulled from websites on the net or the like. I believe if your an American, and did not know this information, and this war is taught too you in history, then there is a reason for that, and IMHO that reason would be the brainwashing that Americans receive through education about their country, and are NOT taught all the facts, nor are they taught to look outside of their own country.

Australia is not loyal to the Queen, yet we don't oppose it either, we just really don't care about all the UK royal BS, and most of the Commonwealth just don't give a rats anymore.

In Australia we are taught history, and that is history of Australia, America, England, China, etc etc... we are taught world history, not just Australian history. Why? Because it allows its population to look outside of its own country, to the world itself, without belief that any one country is better than another, but instead we all makeup the world as one. Whilst Australians are patriotic to Australia, we are taught to ensure we are not ignorant of the world itself. I believe America is quite different to this thinking though... and even change their history as taught to ensure the population are not shown the truth at all costs, but instead are only taught how powerful the Nation is, though really have lost most wars ever involved in. That begs a bigger question though really... Does anyone actually win a war?

[cookie]

lol, anthony. we learn world history, too. well, it's taught anyway. that's a major problem with education in this country--most people just don't want to learn about anything but their own little world."me first" mentality.
cathy

[anthony]

Yer, they tried that here for a short period Cathy, and it got kicked right back out of schools real fast for ignorance. Children should be taught about the world in totality, never just their own country. The more knowledge they bear at a young age helps them to come to their own conclusions as an adult, without prior ignorance during childhood education. Parents obviously influence this also, in a large part. People who generally travel a lot come from families who's parents travelled, and have seen the world, as they influence a positive perception to their children, to see other cultures before they determine whether they are lucky or not.

[Marlene]

Anthony,

I agree that, at least when I was in school, our state, country and world history were taught from white, Euro-centric point of view. Looking at my children's school books, I can see that a lot has changed from when I went through the education system. And a lot still needs to be changed.

I'm married to a man who is Seminole Indian (from his dad's side of the family) and I've learned a lot that wasn't covered in any textbook from his family. That's another thing that needs to be changed. Accepting responsibility for actions (good and bad), telling the truth and setting the record straight. Do I think it's going to happen? Doubtful. At least not in my life time. Maybe in my kid's life the changes that have started will continue and get things right. Who knows?

Listening to a lot people who are older than I am (especially those who've never left the country) have that 'We're #1 and f*ck the rest of the world' attitude. As you know, you learn what you're taught. I learned a lot once I traveled to different countries and when my opinion differs from theirs...oh boy-Katie bar the door!!! LOL

But things do change-just not at quite as quick a pace as some want. And sometimes too fast in the opinions of others.

Once again I'll say...those that win write the history books. And in answer to your question 'does anyone win a war?' IMO-nope...just sets up the parameters for the next one and the next one and so on.

And just for shits and giggles honesty, I've read some pretty snarky comments that you've written about the US that I know are untrue (please don't ask me to quote them because I'll be here all damn night trying to find them! LOL), but it just shows that everyone has their own opinion. A lot of folks I know here think of Australia as Crocodile Dundee, throw another shrimp on the barbie (don't know if that's spelled right) and everyone sits around getting shitfaced on slabs of beer every night. Stereotypes hurt everyone.

[Scott_Fraser]

When I was at school we were taught about the 1812 war, The War of Independence, The Alamo, American Civil War, the Jacobite Rebellions and William The Conqueror, to name but a few. Scottish Schools cover just about everything in history which is good. Although we got Robert Burns and William Shakespeare rammed down our throats (BORING).
Cheers
Scott:hello:

[anthony]

Marlene, very true words, and yes, I do have a grudge against many Americans and the US for its political stances, however; the thousands of Americans I have dealt with, all have been the same, until I reached those that are here and have PTSD. That has changed my opinion a little, knowing that some people in that country do have their heads screwed on like the rest of the world. I have trained with American soldiers, and I wouldn't piss on them to be honest, as a soldier that is, because their mentality and method of training is dangerous, and if you think more American soldiers get killed because their targeted more... wrong... they get killed because they are the least trained. They are trained to rely on firepower, and firepower alone, and firepower is no match for smarts, tactics and commonsense. Your own country sends their people into situations in which they aren't even qualified to be in. That is not the soliders faults, that is the politicians and military's fault.

The business men and women I have dealt with over the years from the US, not one of them came across to me as a common, decent person. All I received, and I am an extremely good judge of character (that I know), was loud mouthed, full of themselves, money hungry pigs who thought anything outside of America was poverty stricken, dumb and could not match themselves. Not a good impression your commercial sector gives to the rest of the world. Hell, if you have watched Chris Rock in his standup shows, even he says the same things, and he is American. Loves his country, but clearly states what the rest of the world already see's, too much ignorance, to much talk, to much doing the wrong things, instead of the right. I have a huge bug up my arse about America, and it is only the people here, since this forum was created, that are even slightly changing my mind about the country. When you travel outside of the US, you wouldn't find many people who praise the US.

Your right though, it is slow, and progressive, and the US is starting to make slow progress, but hell... they need to start looking in for the next decade and fixing their own shit, instead of looking at what they can steal or invade outside of the US.

Yes, a country can be judged collectively for its political actions, though I will admit I do still judge people individually, and not for the country, race or colour of their skin. That is the difference with me and my opinions on the US.

[anthony]

Added, something else that Chris Rock made an extremely profoud statement with, was that no decent human being could be pro any political party without hearing all the arguments. That rings true with me, because you can't be pro or anti a political body until you have heard and listened to all parties. You are a little this party, a little that party, upon election day, you vote for the party that has the majority of policies that will benefit your country most, not just the party you favour. I really like that statement.

[Marlene]

Anthony,

My country has its problems...and what country doesn't? And you're right, we do need to deal with them. People work on that everyday here. I read a quote once that said the human brain does not change quickly except in the presence of trauma. IMO-that's why change for problems is slow. And I agree about voting. I don't belong to a political party...I'm an independant and vote my conscience. Others vote party lines. Freedom of choice-ain't it great?

But know that most people here are just people like everyone else...working, paying bills, raising families, trying to survive/get by and hopefully, get ahead a little bit.

Unfortunately I know several of the business-type people you describe. The mercenary, money is everything and get it at any cost mentality is something I find personally repugnant. Just know that they are not representative of most of us.

Glad to hear you've still got an open mind towards new people. I've traveled to different countries, met a number of people from a lot of different countries here in the states and I've found one universal truth...people (not governments, not politicians) are the same. And we all have the same needs that we want met.

BTW-bug up your butt???? Never noticed. LOL :wink:

[Nam]

I, too, am an independent. Voting for me is like picking the lesser of the two evils. It's so hard to decipher a person's character when it's in front of the camera all the time. Unfortunately, as of late, we've had some crooked people holding the highest power in the country. But, I'm not a politician. In fact, I dislike politics.

There are definitely some very arrogant people here. I agree. But I also believe they are everywhere. There are also some very compassionate, loving people here too, as I'm sure there are in every country. I'm glad, Anthony, that we are slowly changing your opinion of some of us "Americans". (saying it with an Australian accent...lol).

I think, too, that often, people hold an opinion of the people of the US from American television. The television shows and movies that Americans make are not a good sample of what the people and life is like in the states. When my husband was in New Zealand, the people there could not believe that he was actually from a farm. They thought that from coast to coast, it was all city and commerce, or that people only lived in the cities. It was very hard on him to try to convince them that he was not a part of the stereotype they stamped on him. It's hard to stand up for yourself when someone is accusing you of arrogance. How am I to stand up for myself with out coming across as arrogant?

I have an interesting perspective in the fact that I live among most white people here that have not moved out of state, let alone out of the country. They assume that I am not an American. I've had people talk extra loud to me because they think I don't understand what they are saying. (Like talking louder will help! LOL) It isn't until I speak that they realize that I have a midwestern accent; Northern Iowa/Southern Minnesotan accent to be exact. People here still think that I should be great at science and play the violin or cello; which I am terrible at science and don't play an instrument at all. It's hard to break down stereotypes such as these. I'm only one person. The Asian population here is only 0.08 percent. That number is getting better. I think, with more diversity of people and backgrounds, we will come to accept each other better.

I've been following this thread like a hawk. I was trying to decipher the point of the thread. Is it a history lesson? Is it a lecture? Is it a debate? I was also amazed at the hostility toward others especially americans. I don't hate any country. I have a severe dislike for the countries that practice mass genocide (as I think all people should....) I am just me, a mother raising her children in a safe place. I just so happen to live here. Instead of judging a person according to where they are from, try to judge people individually as who they are. That, then, would be an informed opinion.

[cookie]

geez, anthony, you must have gotten to know only the rotten ones! there are a lot of good people in this country, as any other, not all gov. are good, some are awful. i feel like ours is pretty good, if people would interpret the constitution properly and quit trying to bend it to suit themselves. There are 2 "businessmen" in our congregation, both are hard workers, and give of themselves, and their resources. not only to the church, but to a lot of worthy causes. they are very generous, humble people. the earth is populated with people, some good, some not, but people themselves have carved out the countries, and cities, and etc. if you remove them, you still have the same people, regardless of race, language, laws, religion, etc.
i hate to tell you, but you are a people too! (a good one at that)
cathy