Leaving The Forum Because Of Opinions!

[anthony]

A member raised a very good point with me about how they don't really understand how a person could leave a forum merely because they disagree with anothers opinion. I must agree, in that it baffles me. What this member did though, is cause me to think why, and for the very reason they mentioned, in that they read what is written, and choose what to respond, if at all, then it comes down to a self esteem issue really.

To discuss something equitably is to generally have a sense of self confidence and esteem, which means a person can accept others opinions, then choose for themselves whether they agree or disagree, though the self esteem side comes into play within the response or action from those opinions of another. Regardless what anyone says to another person, if they are conscious of having a good self esteem, then words cannot hurt, because the interpretation would only reflect that that is their opinion, and not the opinion of myself.

Opinions are great, and society works upon them. Where things go wrong, is when people become argumentative towards trying to sway others into thinking or believing that their opinion is the right one, instead of being allowed to choose for themselves. If one person says something to another, and the respondant disagree's with their opinion, then the person asking that question would accept and value that response for being their opinion, their right to choice, and not try and change them. Saying that, the person responding should also not try and change the other, but merely provide their point of view based on their opinion.

What is an opinion? It is a persons beliefs, understanding, education, and lots more. If we provide fact, then fact outweighs opinion, and a self esteem if high enough, would accept that and take that fact onboard, which would then derive a new opinion based on learning that education. Opinions can change others opinions also, if made to be interpreted sensibly, with commonsense and logic behind them, factual or not. The issue though lay with each and every person to their choice. Their choice is often a reflection of their self esteem.

If a person walked up to you and called you ugly for example, then if you had a low self esteem and took their words to heart, you would easily get offended, but if you had a high self esteem and self confidence, then their words would not mean anything to you, because you already know within yourself that you are a beautiful person, regardless what another thinks. Yes, the person who says it can determine a words worth, being those close to you who you trust, opposed to a stranger.

I will conclude though, that a persons action and choice is a definate representation of their self esteem. Low to medium self esteem, aggressive and argumentative; high self esteem, water of a ducks back because you believe what you want, and you already know what matters to you, regardless what another says.

What do you think about these type actions? This doesn't even apply to just a forum, but life in general I believe.

[veiled]

I think opinions are based on one's knowledge of facts. I cannot argue and will watch "debates" amongst those who actually have them. Sure I may have my own opinion but when someone has more facts than I, I am willing to listen and learn. If I know more about something... Like say how to make a chicken fried steak or a real taco compared to a fast food joint style, well I do know more and will argue it.

But I am open minded to things I do not have facts on. I wish all were that way but not life. I think the getting mad and trying to shove an opinion down one's throat is wrong but hey people get that way too. It would be like me doing a study on concentration camps and think I have all the facts and argue with someone who lived it. I can believe what I want, but you have to be open to facts and not take it as a personal attack. I will not pretend to be holier than though and say some shit said I do take personal. But when I know a fact with no doubt I will argue it. My take... Yes self esteem. You need and self included when you learn assertiveness you need to bring down aggression you may have or been taught, or learn as you develop it not to come across aggressive. It is a hard one to learn but we all can.

[anthony]

Just went and grabbed this from the wikipedia, which is handy to know:
An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified.
I like that explanation of an opinion...

[mac]

Opinions are based on perception and perception is reality and this reality is truth even if its not the actual truth. :biggrin: How's that grab you?

[mac]

IMO, I don't think anyone should leave the forum because they disagree with someone else's opinion.

"That is why this will be my final post on this forum."

But if this is how you feel, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[mouse]

OK I am sorry I dont want to get involed in this but I agree that everyone has an opinion and I fell you dont half to like ther opinion not even agree, my only issue is that I read som ost and they sdidnt semm to be event oriented they seemed to start that way but quicklel becmae a venting site. those upset could have walked away yes but they had an opinion to, I for one would have walkewd awas aftre post number 2, then out of couriosity I read more and I was disgusted at the aggression levels sent to others and the sthing said . I thouhgt I was reading reading a grade 1 post . political or even current event opinions arre great and are healthy but we dont need to get overly pesonal in fact it is healthy ro argue opinions but as a healing forum let make more of an effot, Thank yo Anthony for your realizations that we have lost 3 eally good support of peopl eover 1 post --seeems a shame

[anthony]

I like that mac... interesting way to look at the meaning in a definitive manner.

What this is, is a self esteem session in which a persons true self esteem can be shown to them, yes, I do have hidden agendas. For those that read and participate in political discussion without aggression, and those that can read and not respond if you feel you would flame, not express your opinion, then you just found out and showed to yourself that you have increased your self esteem levels. I do things for a reason, and I let threads run their course for a reason, even though some think they are a recipe for disaster. I can see that, but I am more interested on the broader scale, so people will truly reveal themselves for who they are, what they believe, and hopefully show themselves that they have a higher self esteem and confidence than they perceive they do. It is working... and yes, I am deceptive in things I do, but as I have said to people before, if I do something here, or let something go, I generally do it for a reason, and that reason is more to the point to help people help themselves.

[mac]

So Anthony, what did you gather from my posts? This ought to be interesting... I'm ready:thumbs-up

[veiled]

I think I caught that...

[GR-ass]

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions. If you don't agree with some one's opinion you should still respect it.


Of course it works both ways.

[anthony]

I like how you derive an opinion, "Opinions are based on perception and perception is reality and this reality is truth even if its not the actual truth" because that is a very good way in which to see what an opinion is. Its not fact, its not fiction, it is the belief or truth a person giving the opinion perceives. I like how you put it... hell, I understood that better than the wikipedia version mate.

[mac]

Thanks Anthony. That's my own quote, although I would never have been able to say it like I wrote it.

[cookie]

opinions are fine, and healthy , but crude gestures and "go to ****" are just wrong, no reason for personal attacks, and anthony , you should have stopped it when it was no longer political, but personal. this is MY opinion.
cathy

[anthony]

Cathy, this could be true, however; the idea is not to shut people down here from saying what they believe, or their opinions. Far far from it actually. Its to help people create tolerance, to build their self esteem in order to help themselves be capable of conversation without becoming aggressive. I can handle people being aggressive with me, and I don't need to respond in an aggressive manner to help them along, simply continue the discussion and let them see their own mistakes. I cannot do the work for anyone, they must do the work for themselves. If a person cannot tolerate political discussion, and instead form statements into personal attacks, without asking for clarification first, then that just helps demonstrate to themselves that they need to work on their self esteem, they need to work on their self confidence in order to participate in something without aggression. Lets face facts, PTSD stems many negative emotions, and those negatives stem responses such as aggression, anger, hostility, rage and so forth, none of which are healthy if you want to control PTSD.

I go to sleep quite peacefully each night. Does a person who wants to be angry? Healing trauma is one thing, learning how to manage PTSD is a much broader area that I try to expose to sufferers against real life situations, not just general chit chat. Building tolerance, building assertiveness, not aggression, is the aim.

[goingonhope]

Opinions are great, and society works upon them. Where things go wrong, is when people become argumentative towards trying to sway others into thinking or believing that their opinion is the right one, instead of being allowed to choose for themselves.
In just the last few days I've thought and learned more about opinion than I've ever considered before this. Appreciate many good points made throughout this thread.

Have been reminded lately of something I've heard said often, "Trouble starts all around the world, whenever people, groups, and countries try to impose their beliefs and will upon others."

A belief is an opinion so why do we so often do this? Thinking about this what I come up with is something I long ago learned and understood clearly along the lines of ...hurt people, hurt people, angry people anger people, and on an on an on an on.....and so I suppose oppressed people oppress people, .....or so they try anyhow.

I generally remember to understand this. As we tend to live what we learn and unless we re-learn something more constructive and quick, or we recover from the unjust that may have been done us, we tend to lose consciousness and may, likely, lean towards or act upon - 'Do onto others as, others, have done onto us. What about........"Do onto others as, you would like others to do onto you." Perhaps optimistic, but not really so for the individual who values this.

Generally only a problem when someone like me who has lived under much domination, cruelty and oppression much of her life demands that others think, feel, believe, be of the same opinion and perform according to absolute rule, leadership or regime.

I pers. now only resort to this tactic when my already low self-esteem goes unrecognized by me, and simultaneously my husb. offers out his opinions concerning family matters, or me. Which I don't appreciate, one single bit, and perceive as him always seeing things pessimistically and the 'cup as half empty'. Well, then I feel threatened and I've shut-him right down. Other than with my husb., this ineffective imposition of will, is more of a thing of my past. As, I've learned to be vigilant, over the yrs. concerning my tendency toward this, ...............but I've overlooked this too, it being a major cause of all hell'breaking loose between husb. and I, at home at times. And, up until the last few days, I was absol. convinced he was in the wrong, for holding opinions on matters that differed from mine.

I have re-thought and learned so much from some recent threads, that not only am I appreciative that some things didn't get deleted, yes perhaps closed at one point, but not deleted, and now later there is much to think about, relate and reflect to our own selves, and discuss, hopefully learn much.

Reminds me of the saying, "In everything, if we look we can find a seed to a bigger and better good." Not exactly it, but along that line.

So anyone with an opinion, don't hesitate to offer it, and test us all. ...lol

Hope

[batgirl]

I agree with everything that's been said thus far. However, I wanted to point out that someone with a low self esteem may not be argumentative or aggressive at all. Take me for instance. When there's a discussion, I will give my opinion, but if someone refutes me I usually back down immediately and often apologize too, even if the other person is full of shit. I'm afraid of conflict and afraid of people being angry or upset with me. I try to be pleasant and agreeable, often to my own detriment. The only time I would be aggressive would be in a total rage, and then I'd probably just smash the computer rather than type something nasty. And if I did type something nasty I'd be very apologetic and embarrassed later on, I certainly wouldn't continue to think I was right or leave the forum over it. I think it's sad that people left the forum over that other thread. I didn't really understand what they were so angry about, I didn't see anything derogatory in what was said. It seems to me they must have had some other issues that were bothering them as well.

A lot of times too, I don't argue because I don't have sufficient knowledge about most issues. So I keep out of discussions to avoid looking stupid.

I definitely think people have a right to their opinions, and I'm glad they are not censored on this forum.

[Ubu]

I dont know the thread that caused someone to leave the forum. I like what Anthony and Mac have said. Since im new around her ill go out on a limp. People come her for support and for validation. Sometime they may come here and not get the validation they are looking for whatever the topic maybe. If several give an apposing opinion. They may not be strong enough to take the opinion or feedback and really look at themselves and through that become a stronger person because of the internal trumoil.
There are a few different personalities out there and they can be catigorized. Some always have to be right unless you can back it up with fact and show them they are wrong. Some are passive. Some are peacekeepers listen to both sides and try to find a middle ground. Just like raising kids or training a new police officer. You have to let them struggle to learn. Often that is the better teacher than someone giving you all the answers. Im probably way of base here. But isnt that why we are here to bring our experience, perspective and knowledge to help one another. And be validated or unvalidated and struggle and grow. Just my .02

[anthony]

That is exactly it Ubu... to learn from other another, and respect anothers opinion. It doesn't matter if one person here despises London, and another loves it, (example), Australia, USA, etc etc... its about opinions and that we are all entitled. I learn from others here every single day, even though most may think I don't, I do. I read things here constantly that help influence my own decisions and thought processes, to do research on a particular topic, etc, but to improve myself overall, and hopefully to put all the pieces together to help others in the process.

People here help others more than than think, or even often know, just from sharing their opinions and experience. Its not about trying to change people to have the same opinion, that is wrong, its merely about shareing it, getting it off your chest, and others should take what they want, leave the rest, but not judge others based on their opinions.

I don't like George Bush, despise the man, but other here voted for him, some would vote for him again if he could run, but that is something I respect of others, as its their opinion, and mine is my opinion. Neither should attempt to influence the other to accept their opinion or change their way towards that opinion, but merely acknowledge that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. We are not here to change people, we are here to provide information, opinions, fact and experience to allow people to make their own choice, not influence them one way or another. I like what you said Ubu... well said at that.

[goingonhope]

Reminds me of the saying, "In everything, if we look we can find a seed to a bigger and better good." Not exactly it, but along that line.
Now I remember the actual saying that was once shared with me as support, It actually goes,

"In every adversity, is a seed to a bigger and better good."