Emotional Bullshit From Seperation - The Games Played

[anthony]

Its funny that I have sat here thinking lately of the bullshit games that get played during seperation, you know the one's if you have been with someone a while and seperate, one, the other or both play the shitty little emotional head f*ck games.

I have had Kerrie playing these with me since seperation, no doubt at all, part of her personality I guess to control through manipulation. It makes me laugh at some of the things people come out with though, the thinking styles I guess when it comes to losing something you want for yourself, or want because you don't want another to have them.

She would rather negative contact so she atleast has contact, ie. abuse, manipulation, general tactics to simply make contact really. What do these things really achieve in relationship breakdowns though? More heartache, more pain, and with PTSD in the equation, often more illness time.

An example from a couple of days ago, Kerrie contacts me and wants me to go shopping to replace Alexanders little tricycle that got damaged in the move. Now whilst we bought that here in Melbourne, you can buy the damn things anywhere pretty much around Australia, or something similar, like everywhere you go you can pretty much find kids toys... so here she is ringing me and wanting me to go do it, when I first react that she just wants me to do it for the cost, she then informs me she will pay. So if she is paying for it, then why exactly would I need to go get one if she can get one where she is? I know... control, manipulation, contact... seeing whether I will jump at her commands.

Like who the hell runs around after someone who you are seperated from? Seperation is for a reason, not for fun and games. I just don't get it. She says in one breathe that she only wants contact if it directly affects the children, then does something completely different.

She asked me whilst here and moving her things, if she could stay in my house for the Friday, Saturday and "maybe" the Sunday night. Well, she stayed all those nights, then proceeded to stay without permission the Monday night. I was not staying their anyway, as I lived next door with Nic.. no secrets in that one. Well, she knew where I lived, but obviously thought I didn't think she knew or something, played the mind games etc etc... I ignored and did my daily thing, played with the kids, went home... usually first to the coffee shop to chill out having to be around Kerrie.

She must off assumed that I was trying to hide the fact I was next door, when in fact it was quite the opposite, considering everyone in the street that she would talk too all knew myself and Nic where dating and now living together... no big secret there either. No, I didn't want to rub it in her face, because that is simply stooping to her level IMO to play emotional games.

Anyway, she pissed me off by staying the Monday night when she was not given permission to do so, as I simply did not want her around me any longer, and considering the house was mine and I was the only one paying for it, and she had not lived their for six months, no brainer really. She called the police the Tuesday morning on me because I was going to remove her from the house, told them the usual shit, I was threatening and intimidating her.... intimidating, NO, threatening to remove her from the house myself if she didn't get out, YES. Anyway, the police turned up, told them the story, she told them her version, they told her to get her shit and get out of the house, same thing I told her... how funny I thought. I still chuckle to myself about her own actions biting her on the arse. You have to know Kerrie I guess to realise how funny that is... just read her mental imagery about being controlling, you may gather the rest then.

Anyway, she continues to leave, and under police instruction, must hand back the keys to the agent, another thing I demanded from her as she has no legal right to the property, yet wouldn't give me the keys. Oh, thats right, I wouldn't give her the car key I had until she gave me the house keys... funny, simple exchange really, but difficult for herself obviously. She would have lost control if she did that. Any how, the police gave her strict instructions which I checked on all the way to make sure she followed, otherwise I was ringing them back myself and letting them do their job with her, so the next day I go out to the mailbox, and here is a postcard and letter from Kerrie... typical emotional games, then we check our post office box, another postcard, typical emotional games once again. She must have thought they where also secretive? Not sure how, considering her solicitor would have had that information and the post box is where most of nics mail goes anyway.

Why do women play these emotional games? I know why, because they don't want to let go most likely. They aren't ready yet, even though they don't want the person, they don't want anyone else to have them either. That is the general consensus I believe when it comes to these matters.

So what emotional games have you played on ex partners, or been played on you? Makes me curious really to see what stories and experience we have in this area. How does it affect you with PTSD? I know it made me sick as hell, hence why I have taken control of these situations now and ignore them completely, ignore stupid requests, and put them back with the person they belong.

[veiled]

I still get the head games played on me. Even with my move and divorced for 7 years.

My ex knows I get very ill in June. He knows I have been going down hill right now. I have had 2 hours sleep in the last 48 hours. So he knows how to cause a sneaky maneuver to push me further. Worry and call me several times over my son. Telling me how distressed my son is over our divorce. Calling me to find a therapist. Though I pushed to have him go talk to someone when I moved as I knew it would be hard.

How I got roped into always seeing him when we first broke up. It was always because of my son needing me which never really turned out to be the case. It was a control game. Contributed to the rape.

Calling and saying he was sorry I thought he raped me now. He thought I wanted it. This is a fairly new tactic. Even though he was ready to turn himself in when he did it and showed remorse for years, I guess now that I am not right there the head games changed.

Way too often the head games and emotions are played on using the kids. Kids are normally the pawn to screw with you I have noticed. I was too often more than willing to jump for my son and still fall for it... I normally don't catch it until too late.

[WarHippy1%]

Anthony, I don't know anything about why your relationship ended, but, just the way you describe her actions, I get the impression she doesn't want things to be over. She might have even been the one to instigate the breakup, but it's been my experience that they do these things to test the waters, to see if you still care, and to see if you'll take any steps to get her back. Many times, it's just a ploy, so after you show some interest is still there, they can say, "Too bad, cuz I'm through". Of course, that could be a game too, to see if you'll fight to get her back, but I always gave up after the , "Too bad" part and didn't pursue any further. It's one of those, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" things and I was never willing to look like a complete fool repeatedly. If she was through, she probably wouldn't bother you, but it's obvious that you're still on her mind alot and she's thinking of ways to see you or converse with you, or just pester you so that she knows you're thinking of her too. Remember, when someone wants attention and can't get positive attention, they'll many times opt for negative attention, like children, figuring negative attention is still better than no attention. I don't know if you wanted to hear this, but that is what I perceive happening. Good luck whichever way things go for you.
Respectfully,
WarHippy1%

[Claire]

I dont play games. Not my style at all. Hate the whole thing. In my opinion it belittles the person playing the game. Its a power trip isn't it? trying to win in someway, whatever that way is, control, revenge, spite or whatever. Its not just girls that do though. Boys can be just as bad.

[anthony]

Thanks Hippy, always appreciated, and very accurate I must say. I know its games in my case, and I think we all do in most cases, though at the time we often don't see it. I see it now because of what I know from healing and learning about PTSD, techniques for mental control, etc etc... its a form of not letting go, and to bring us often to the same level they are, or want to move too, they just want to drag both parties down at once though, instead of suffering alone.

I agree veiled, and Kerrie is dangling the kids with her emotional BS... without a doubt, because whenever the negative attention comes up, she mentions its for one of the kids, not for her. Yer right, she wants to make me suffer and use the kids as an excuse. I see it this way, if Kerrie really gave two hoots about the kids "best interest" and "well-being" in every sense as she claims, she would never have taken them further than a stones throw from me, so both her and I could still see, manage and raise our children, instead she opted for her own needs ahead of the childrens, by taking them 12 hours drive away from me so that she can feel better, not the kids. The kids and myself suffer, she is catering herself IMHO.

[Monarch]

games suck, I had a couple of guys play games with me, break up with me and do the "I just want to be friends" thing, next thing that happens, we go out with friends and wake up the next morning and bed together. still not being boyfriend and girlfriend but sleeping together, totally sending mixed messages. It always made me feel worse about myself (I don't need any help in that dept.) that I wasn't good enough to be their girlfriend but good enough to secretly sleep with like they were ashamed of me. That is how I felt, it wasn't true, it was all mind games but that is what it felt like. 3 guys did that to me and it just furthered my self hatred thoughts.

[cactus_jack]

Anthony, I hear ya brother. I'll have you in my prayers.

[becvan]

I have no patience for head games. I've always been the person that just says it's over and walks away. If games start getting played, I will hang up the phone, not answer the door etc... My imprisoned ex is trying to play games. Well I want if you if I get parole here but not if I get sent here... My answer: Your just not that into me. I cut contact and am done with it.

Darn hard to do though with kids involved. I'm sorry to hear this is taking place Anthony. Keep your focus on your children and your health. I love how her own games are biting her in the ass!

bec

[Jet]

Ok...I am going to play devil's advocate here...sorry.

Anthony...a few days ago you asked me if it was really for us to judge the thoughts of others and now I am asking you the same.

A marriage ending is more than just saying goodbye to someone...you know that. When a couple gets married they plan for a future... They don't think about what they will say and how they will react when it comes undone.

People get all kinds of crazy feelings they aren't expecting and have no place for them to go. Like the house thing...think about it for a minute ok.

Even if she had been so inclined what would you have done if she had come to you and said Hey Anthony...this really hurts, it's over and we both know it so why does it have to hurt so much...and can't you feel it...when you go in the bedroom do you still hear Caleb's first cry and don't you hear Alexander's footsteps in the hall? Do you remember when we used to dream together and laugh together. What would you have said if she had looked at you and said plain as day...yep, I know it doesn't make a lick of sense but being here, packing up what should have been our life together is bad enough but knowing that you are over there with her...well, it just hurts more then there are words for.

Don't get me wrong...I am not saying that her actions are ok or that you should allow her to manipulate or abuse you (or the kids). And maybe more than anyone I understand the pain that comes from having someone take your babies so far away...

Make your boundries clear and stick to them. Take care of you first and formost...live your life and enjoy it....

Just keep in mind that everybody has their own truth, no one sees the world the same way, even those with the same experiences do not have the same view...maybe she doesn't like the way she feels or is acting either.

[anthony]

Jet, what you post though is accurate, in that your not playing devils advocate at all, but your simply outlining what should be said, though instead of words is hurtful games, which come with spite, not feelings, pain, not discussion. I am all for discussion, but not for games... and I agree with you, things have memories, and this is exactly why I never rubbed my relationship in her face, kept is hidden away for a week causing all sorts of other issues within that by itself, though did it because of her emotional vunerability. She knew about the relationship, but I certainly didn't want to rub it in her face because I knew she would be emotional over packing.

Yes, caleb was born in that house, but that is not a reason to be nasty, spiteful and hateful. Talking is talking, yelling is yelling, and games are games. The first is the only acceptable one in my book... though that is me, and everyone is different. I am curious really what others go through, the games that get played, the things we do and have had done, a venting session I guess about the BS from relationship breakdowns if you will.

I must agree with you though jet, very accurate your words.

[batgirl]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because I've never been in a relationship and so I have no experience, nothing to add. However, I do understand and relate to parts of what have been said here. Maybe it's not as difficult as in a romantic relationship, but from my own experience head games and manipulation happen in platonic relationships as well, and also between family members.

I don't like the games either... I can't imagine myself playing games like that. If I'm hurt by a situation I tend to withdraw from the person who hurt me. I definitely don't go after them and try to make their life more miserable. I prefer no contact if I can manage it. And if someone is playing games with me, even early on in the friendship, I run far far away as soon as I sense it. I can't tolerate it at all. Usually I will cut off contact completely with no explanation.

For example, and this is a minor example but it makes the point I think... fairly recently I met this girl through my support group, and I thought we could be friends. Well we had a bit of a disagreement, nothing major, at least not from my point of view. Prior to the disagreement we had agreed to go to a movie together, a matinee because we both have problems with packed theatres. Well after the disagreement she cancelled of course, but I still went, as it was a movie I was really keen on. My aunt accompanied me. The theatre was pretty deserted.

A couple of days later, my friend made contact with me again, she had been giving me the silent treatment (another thing I really can't stand), but she acted like everything was cool. We had a nice visit, but then about an hour into the visit the subject of the movie came up. Well it turned out she went to the movie too, the exact same matinee as me, just with a different friend! She knew I was there too, she saw me with my aunt! I didn't see her. She also said the movie sucked big time, and anyone who liked it was weird, knowing that I really liked it. She said it all in a really sweet innocent voice but it was obvious she was doing it on purpose to hurt me.

Well, needless to say, that was the last time I saw her. I wasn't interested in being her friend after that. The argument had been so minor and her response to it was so vindictive that I just thought **** you I don't need this. The saddest part was, she obviously didn't even realize what she was doing, because she was very confused about me not wanting to see her anymore. I didn't give her an explanation, I just brushed her off everytime she rung me or tried to make contact, until she finally got the message.

[dljwhitewolf]

Ok, from a female who grew up in auto shops, as one of the guys, here's my stories and take on yours anthony.
First, my first crush started flirting with me, and being naive I never thought to ask if he had anyone else in his life. Well he did.
So at 16, we went out, and I moved in with him, his mom, his brother and the dog blacky, that always had his mom saying," would you get out of my ass", everytime she did the dishes.
I am injun and italian, he was injun and polish. He played with the wrong one.
I had a instinct every morning of what he would be doing that night if it was going to be disrespectful of me.
Well, this one particular day, he was a mechanic, so was my dad, similarity?,
I went to the shop at closing and of course he was mia. The one good thing he did have on the injun side was hiding, he did hide well.
Well, I hung out with a guy who had a massive crush on me, and we partied, and of course the bug up my ass, had me talking about my crush, didn't seem to disway this guy at all. Oh, well, anyway after a good three o'clock in the morning, I finally went home, he was drunk and passed out. I wasn't having it though. I just wanted honesty, so since he wouldn't wake up, I gave him hickies and sprayed him with his mom's perfume. Finally I kicked the wooden drawers under his mattress, on a constant basis, as he stirred, and finally woke up. The ball was now in my court.
I asked him where he was, and he wanted to talk about it in the morning.
It was morning I told him and kept kicking the wooden drawer til he finally was fully awake. We spoke very little, and then came the pow, I said you have no respect for me, you smell like a french whore and look at you, you even came home with hickies to rub it in my face, with that he ran to the bathroom mirror, and under his breath, he said, "that bitch", bingo, he told on himself.
Well I left then, but he is the one person, til this day that I have a need to jab at here and there, and the last person I let play head games on me. His other girlfriend and I became friends, we left him, and he went and married his partner at works ugly girlfriend, to get revenge, that only served in having alot of people not like him, and depressed because he was not satisfied in the relationship at all.
I think when you have ptsd you have to really soul search yourself and in that you face yourself head on. The average person really never has to do that at all, hence, the never do the soul searching and finding a place where they belong and as a result they may never reach the point of really ever falling in love.
Your ex sounds like her life is a game, and while playing games, people like that can never get to the real side of life.
Maybe, when you first went out with her, you did things for her, out of what you wanted to do, and she came to depend on that. Don't know. And maybe now that you are tired of the games, she expects you to continue playing, when you weren't playing in the first place.
I don't play games, but when one is initated in my direction, and I feel like I want to teach a lesson, I will end the game the winner, teaching a lesson that this is not behavior the rest of the world needs to deal with. For what it's worth, the person does learn a lesson, and even thanks me. lol
I was lucky enough to have alot of real people in my life, or more accurately, find them.
I hope your new relationship is proving to be much different and more real then the one before it.

[WarHippy1%]

I guess this is where I have to disagree with dlj. As soon as you lower yourself to their level to play the game, whether it's to win or teach them a lesson, you've lost the game, you haven't taught them a thing, only that sometimes the game ends unfavorably. When I notice I'm involved in a game, I stop playing COMPLETELY. When you find yourself playing the game alone, you lose, and alot of times it hits hard because the person who starts it thinks they are 'all that' and wouldn't dream that someone just wouldn't at least play and try to win. It takes their self-confidence and runs it through the ringer. To the person who refuses to play, it boosts their self-esteem because they realize they didn't need that creep anyway. So, who wins if one person refuses to play? It sure isn't the game player, cuz he's playin with himself, in more ways than one. The person who says, "I'm just not gonna play, cuz yer not worth the game" is the winner, and as a nice added effect, imagine the other person's ego deflating like a balloon when you tell them that message, it's really worth doing face-to-face.
Just my humble opinion.....
WarHippy1%

[dljwhitewolf]

No is all I will answer here in this forum, with adrenalin pumping out of respect I will not answer to a benign statement. Yes I adore you war, but enough is enough...
Me and Sarge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Portabella]

I played horrible games with my first husband. I actually felt justified as he did not treat me the best, but as life has progressed I realize it was not as bad as I thought it was at the time. The worst thing I ever did to him was sell his car without his permission. I was 18 and he had a red corvette that he adored. He would wax and wipe it. Kept it in the garage, loved the car alot more than me I am convinced. Well, I ran an ad and sold it for $6000. I was in mint condition, candy apple red, louvers, sidepipes, window etching of strawberries and roses, button tufted leather seats, mag wheels, and had all the extra's. It sold in a day and he was ready to kill me, I really did not understand what I did that was so bad at the time, now.....I am amazed I am alive.

My second husband Paul (11 1/2) years of marriage, he would always tell me that he would kill me before I would ever leave him. I am going to zip through but I left him and took the kids. I will tell more in my diary about all the violence that ensued during the break up, but....during the second restraining order hearing (being amended) he brought a rose, he had always bought me a rose for birthday, mother's day, Christmas, it was kind of his thing. Well, here we are in Judges chambers, sheriffs officers and victims advocate present in case of trouble (violence) and he hands me a rose. The judge was floored. I left the rose on my seat as I left that day and was escorted to my residence by sheriff dept. Later, as I was to serve him with divorce papers he beat me to it by a day and had me served so the venue would be in Linn County Iowa instead of Colorado. He kept continuing the case and was standing strong on the fact that he would not let me go. Then I drove to Iowa, I was excited as he had not continued the case and when I got there I was told in the courtroom that they were sorry but his lawyer had continued last minute as he was out of town on business. I was pissed to say the least. When I got to my car there was a single rose on my car seat. Scared the crap out of me. So I re upped the restraining order in Colorado, as I took that as a threat. I also wrote the judge and told him that by him continuing the case over and over (had been 2 years) he was holding me captive. The judge actually granted the divorce the next hearing even though neither of us were there.

I have not spoken to him for many years and had the great honor (bleh) of speaking with him as he called me at work about 2 years ago. The venom is still in his voice, we have been split for literally 13 years now and the hate is thick in his voice. I still watch my back as I trust this will never be over. I believe he is the ultimate in mind games.

[anthony]

A vent... something that needs to come out IMHO....

And this just reinforces exactly what happened between Kerrie and I, where the emotional bullshit simply continues (the games she plays), and not only does she now attack me, but now nicolette, also now the forum members. This is an extract of information she sent to me in an email today:
Nice post on the forum about the hell I gave you…what a joke. Aaah if only you were honest and revealed what a lying cheat you really are. Bet your forum buddies don’t know that you were cheating with the chick next door do they, or that YOU threatened to call the police or that YOU wouldn’t give me the keys to my car. Actually some of them probably do know and probably knew before gullible ‘ole me figured out....

....No wonder you wouldn’t give me your address. Not a bit of moral fibre to be found in your body. She is welcome to you only I hope she is smarter than Susan or I ever was and figures you out before it’s too late. Whoops it already is dumb ass let you move into her house with her.
Now this is Kerrie's current emotional state. We broke up and our marriage cease in January this year, yet I didn't even meet Nicolette until end of February at Logans birthday party. Funnily enough, we had never even chatted until end of February, as she had her life, we had our lives... then i had my life. Kerrie seems to think now that I cheated on her because I am still married to her, though seperated. WRONG... that law is not the case here in Australia, far far from it. You do not need to be divorced in order to be in another relationship here, simply you must be seperated and all is well. Nice try... another emotional attack and game in order to try and justify in her own mind another reason for our breakup other than we just failed one another, we just failed together as a marriage. Simple as that, yet she does not want any responsibility in the failure, instead she would rather tell herself that I cheated on her after we broke up... exactly how that is cheating once you seperate, but to her it is, and no doubt will be for some time.

These are emotional games... this crap is absolute BS in my mind. Grown adults cannot accept responsibility for their actions, so they play games. Its funny though, in that she mentions my threat to her about calling the police, which I did threaten her to call the police, no issue with that, and the only reason was because she remained in MY house, not her house, but my house without my permission after I had told her to leave. She dangled the kids in front of me once again... something like, "you wouldn't put your kids out on the street, would you?" Funnily enough, silly me once again, didn't call them and let her have her controlling way once again, as she did our entire marriage, thus the next morning she wanted the keys to her car as the transport was here to pick it up... the old beat up corolla I had here, as she TOOK the new car herself.... yet I simply wanted her set of keys to MY house in exchange, yet she didn't want to give me the keys, so i told her I wouldn't give her the car key, hence why she called the police on me, the police arrived, and kicked her out of the house, told her to pack her shit and get the hell out as she was illegally staying in the house without my permission and had no authority to be their as she was not financial with the property, only myself... exactly what I told her and threatened her to call the police in the first place, but she did it for me... this is what I laugh about. So she got removed from the house, I gave her the key to the car and the police made her go and hand my keys back to the agent. Chuckled once again... because her manipulative controlling behaviour backfired on her.

This is mind games, and this is the exact shit I refer in this thread that I believe is well and truly unacceptable. Now as to why I wouldn't give her my new address... like dur, do I really want to rub it in her face? No... I am not that much of an arsehole these days. Yes, I used to be years ago and most likely would have done stupid things like that, ie. been just as nasty and certainly lowered myself to the same level, but I did not and will not as I am a completely different person nowadays to what I was, yet Kerrie still has not moved on within herself to see for herself that my new relationship has nothing to do with our seperation, nor was it even a thought at the time of seperation.

I believe to Kerrie that my relationship will never be acceptable until such time as she has let go and moves on in another relationship herself... whilst she is miserable, she wants me to be so... go figure... like I didn't see that coming. That is a pretty standard game in relationship breakdowns from what I see and have experienced myself.

Kerrie thinks I hide things, yet those with access to the PTSD only section would now that I don't, and discussed this openly the entire time, bouncing things off others, getting feedback, looking for other solutions that I have not though... yet emotional games get played. Things would be much easier if children weren't involved, though she uses them like pawns, still trying to control me with them. I would have thought she would know better by now, but still obviously not.

Now to me, I would think that not everything should be mentioned about a relationship breakdown, as i hadn't mentioned here because IMHO it would have only discredited Kerrie more, yet she attacks me with this type of nonsense, attacks Nicolette now and she has nothing to do with anything apart from being my new girlfriend after Kerrie and I had seperated, and now the forum members... what next? Maybe she will attack the kids? Maybe Melbourne itself is at fault for our marriage breakdown? Why can't adults simply be honest and look within themselves before they go jumping to others, pointing fingers and looking for someone to blame? I know why... its easier to blame someone else than it is to blame yourself. Something to do with denial and looking inwards I believe? The exact things you must do in order to heal PTSD, hence why those who heal PTSD or trauma are generally much more intune with themselves, honest with themselves, than people generally are who have not suffered trauma.

[batgirl]

Ugh maybe I should follow in my Auntie Brenda's footsteps and become a nun... :p

[Marlene]

I have been with my husband for 21 years now and thought that I had nothing to add. But reading things here have brought some thoughts forward. Before I met my husband, I was a very good game player. And tended to attract the same kind. Makes for miserable relationships. After I got with my husband, it took a while to work the kinks out and learn that I didn't have to play games with him. That's also when I learned that game playing is a form of self-defence. A bad one, but one used a lot just the same. It's also a form of control since through your actions or words you're attempting to control another's words or actions. Again...not a good thing to do.

I've told my daughters (especially my oldest who is an adult) DO NOT play games. Be honest, be yourself. If that's not good enough for someone...screw 'em! Then they're not worth your time. I've also had to explain (a number of times in a number of ways) that being a legal adult does not make you an adult. It has nothing to do with age and everything to do with who you are, how you act and taking responsibility for yourself and your actions. All of it...good and bad.

The mention of healing traumas with PTSD present requiring honesty was definately right on the money. At least for me. I've had to be honest with myself in ways that, I thought, were too humiliating to contemplate. But I've done it and I continue to do it because lies (even to yourself) only lead to more lies. It's a real no-sum-gain proposition. It's also lead to a deeper honesty in my marriage, my family, my friends and my life. It becomes 'If I won't tolerate dishonesty with myself anymore, why would I tolerate it in other parts of my life?' Yeah, I've lost a few friends, but I've gained a whole lot more respect for myself and better relationships with those that count.

Anthony you asked Why can't adults simply be honest and look within themselves before they go jumping to others, pointing fingers and looking for someone to blame?
Being an adult entails taking responsibility for your actions rather than pawing them off on the most convenient person/place/thing. Some people don't fuction like that and refuse to even entertain the idea. A heard a quote years ago about adulthood. 'You become an adult when you won't take your pleasure at the expense of another's pain'

Lisa

[Jim]

Ugh maybe I should follow in my Auntie Brenda's footsteps and become a nun... :p

No no Evie please my dear, one bloody self-righteous nun in the family is sufficient, thank you. Besides which fear of relationships is not a valid reason to join a religious order. Face your fears my girl, don't avoid them.

Anthony, you have my sympathies. Only been married once thank Christ. Kathy and myself went through similar difficulties during our trial separation. However. That's 30-odd years back and this old head is not what it used to be. Perhaps Kathy will recall a specific incident to share. Probably getting into hot water with this one, but females seem to have a knack for remembering past wrongs, even decades later! ;-)

Bottom line - Kathy and I were both of us young and immature, reckon in our early 20s. Both acted in ways we now regret. If I may be so bold, 35 is a bit old to still be carrying on in this fashion. Understand it is a difficult thing. Kerrie is hurting and angry, obvious that, but the expression of that hurt is self-defeating. About time to grow up in my opinion. Suppose some people never completely grow out of that behaviour. However. There are children to consider. Not a healthy atmosphere. Those precious little ones and their comfort should be top priority. Infuriates me when people use their youngsters as leverage. Very selfish, that.

Pleased to read you are not accepting any bullshit. That is the best way. Hope things settle down soon, for the sake of all concerned.

Jim.

[cactus_jack]

I'm tired of relationships because the girl I'm usually dating complains about how she doesn't want a guy that plays games.

Well, the fact is love IS a game. Either you play it and have a relationship or you don't play it and don't have a relationship. Is that harsh? I don't think so. It is true though. What those ghirls wanted isn't a guy that doesn't play games, but a guy that plays their games. Sometimes they just can't tell much difference.

The human personality is so unique and diverse that "games" (as we call them) really aren't the game kids play, but instead it's finding what works for the person dating. Dfferent bits and pieces to attract them, to turn them on and to turn them off. It seems like a game, when all it really is is experimenting and researching.

IMHO.

[dljwhitewolf]

Well, I feel for ya, Anthony, because, yes, the children will always connect you.
I learned via my mother, very early on, the game of jealousy. Thank goodness I am allergic. But she showed me through her relationships, that she will never really know what love is. Games are going to be played in one aspect of life or another, this is a fact.
Some are born to forever drown themselves, and never "get it".
You seem to still get really bothered by her words, but as long as you know the facts about yourself, nothing should hit you and stick, just fall off like a leaf falling off a tree.
I had a neighbor wanting me to tell her what to say to someone she wants to break up with. She was trying to find words that made sense, but were wrong to the situation.
No one is wrong for a failure, it was faith that got you to enter it, but reality that made you see clearly. Some chemistries are just a wicked brew, as you very well know now. It's an endless cycle of live and learn. As we change so too will others toward us. What we will and won't allow in our lives.
You are growing and looking for merit that you have made right decisions, to my way of thinking you see it very clearly and realistically.
And as far as not rubbing her face in it, I completely understand that. That was a very respectful thing to consider.
Regardless of who it is, try not to let someone else have any negative reign on your life. Having ptsd is hard enough, and many will never get out of their hell, because once they are on the top rung of rescue, they jump from fear of the unknown, or scared of any type of change.
You are facing yours. Its a very brave thing to do.
My mom used to berate me, in my tender years, when I learned I had to change my way of reacting. I used her way, which was screaming. It never got anywhere, I and was left totally frustrated.
Finally I spoke with calm words, and said when she wished to speak to me, and could do it like an adult, I will listen. (Boy, did that initally start sparks of, I think I'm so perfect, etc. etc. etc.) But the more I walked away from the screeching, the more she had to view herself and make changes to get a word in.
With much time spent on this, she had to change, and I stopped being the door mat.
She is the main reason for me having ptsd, although queen of denile wants to be vindicated and blame everyone else. The fact was she was my legal guardian, and didn't care what cheap way of living my brother and I went thru, as long as we were not a burden to her.
I feel for anyone who has to go through this, but in order for it to change, we must change the way we react, every action, has a reaction.
If we can change a reaction to something negative, instead of the ones we have come to know thus far, it changes the way others behave toward us.
I demand respect because I am not the enemy, and won't be treated like the enemy.
I wish I could help more, again, you have your children to consider. And no matter what, it is those children that need to know from example on behavior. You can only control your side of it. Children are very quick to note positive reinforcment.
Hope something in there helps, think of your accomplishments thus far.

[ryair]

Something i was told recently that I feel applies to jealousy,and revenge as well......
Resentment is swallowing poison, wishing the other person dies.

You are only going to hurt yourself.
As to the game playing...
It would be a very lucky person who has never experienced this, and perhaps that is what makes it seem so abbhorent. When you can finally recognise it for what it is, and know that it will only affect you as a person if you let it, and as War suggested, it is "game over".

As to the game player...
And lets face it, after honing game playing skills on a person living with PTSD, they would feel like it would only be a matter of time before you 'cracked' and gave them back the control they are not only used to, but have but have been accustomed to having. Of course they will try and try again!
Letting go of control is scary, and fear is sometimes the biggest motivator of all. Who are they really without you and your PTSD? Sometimes it is the hardest question of all....Standing here on my own, Who am I really?

As to protecting yourself, and not becoming a game player yourself.....
Ultimately I comes down to how well you know yourself, and whether you can face the unknown and stand tall knowing you have the skills to live life independantly.
Just my thoughts....
xxxxxxxxx

[Marilyn_S]

Anthony,

Don't know if I've ever played head games but my X most definately played them with me. He acted like he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He left me and went to live with one of my college buddies. He would come back to the house frequently to see if I'd have sex with him. Most of the time he would not take no for an answer. He told me he'd attend marriage counseling but that he did not think it would do any good. He was always acting like he wanted me back then if he got what he wanted he would say he was not in love with me anymore. I guess that was a guy playing head games.

[dljwhitewolf]

Well I'm glad I do not tolerate head games, life is to short, the one thing I promised myself when I was little was one day I would be big, and when I get big, I won't let anyone screw with me. Well at fifteen I was big. I may have taken it way to far, because I finally fell in love at 32, short lived but worth the feeling, not the memories of the guy, but I won't tolerate head games.
Now that I am big, and 44, I just may be falling in love for the second time. This one was worth the wait. Big time.

[TLight]

I recently broke-up with a man I moved into my house after a few weeks of really hitting it off. He had really needed a place to live, so I told him we'd try it for awhile and he could always get a place of his own.

I also made it clear to him what I wanted and needed in a relationship. I went through the list, which included 'financially stable' and 'able to provide, if needed.' I was having a very difficult time working. I'm a biologist and want desparately to move forward in my career, but keep running up against a-hole bosses who mistreat me.

I'd also just started therapy and told him right up front what I was working on and that I'd had an attempt only months previously.

Anyway, Long story short, after two years of me being the only one working, plus taking care of him through 6 months of chemo and him promising me I now had a 'family.' I finally was being triggered so much because my cop father never worked, I told him that's what was happening and when my raging couldn't be contained, no matter how hard I tried, I'd call him a 'Mamma's boy, and claim that he had no committment to me like I had to him" We were living in a tiny one room cabin. He's spend all day pondering and perhaps do the laundry, while I worked with an a-hole all day.........totally reigniting my symptoms.

Anyway, he's gone now, but is the only person who can testify at my SSD hearing. He said he's too busy and would 'send an affidavit.' Also, he's telling his whole family what a b*ch I am and what I 'put him through.' He is so co-dependent with his mother. She sent him 12 grand and he spent the whole thing.

This happens to me over and over. I pick men like my Father. I've wasted 42 years doing this and the stress has damaged me physically and the ptsd is getting more worse. Without my T, I'd have blamed the whole thing on me again.
I'm so disappointed in how cruel people who use the word 'love' can be. He told me to "go to hell the other night when I pointed out how full of selfishness he is." I had an attempt because in the middle of a flashback, he screamed at me "I'm so sick of your self pity." I nearly died.

Anyway, Anthony.....women can be hurting badly, and the truth, I want to call him back, write e-mails to his mom, etc. etc. in an attempt to undo a wrong that almost killed me.

But this doesn't justify what you X is doing with your kids. I've been through this crap over and over and may call and try to make the person miserable for a few weeks, but it's just because the pain is so overwhelming. But never would I ever involve children.
When she calls, whatever she says, just say "I know it hurts and I'm sorry you hurt." Then hang up. Perhaps that's all she needs to hear and the chaos may end.

[Cindy]

Break ups are crushing from both sides. As I reflect on my own and others there frequently seems to be one half of the equation totally focused on meeting their own needs above anyone else involved in the situation. Of course this leads to others being side swiped by their actions.

[sunnydaze]

Anthony,
I feel for you. Game playing does in the end affect the children. Hopefully, "the you won't see your kids doesn't come out to play". It takes much time and money to fight this battle in court. Money that could have been spent on the child wheather it be fun things to do, toys to play with or clothes to wear. My step-son developed nervous tics from the game playing. my ex did not want to pay child support and knew I loved his son. So we fought years of custody battles and finally won. Within the next year my ex was sleeping around, not coming home and thinking I have our daughter to raise and now his son.

I decided to play "She Devil" (a movie) that I saw. Everytime, I needed to go somewhere I would call his girlfriend or him up and tell them they had to come home to watch the kids. Of course, they acted up due to their family breaking up. I told the girlfriend that my husband comes with a package deal. You want him you have responsibilites of the children as well. Needless to say, she didn't last long. It interferred with her bar time.

I enjoyed Jets first comment to you, I thought it was a mature observation. I enjoyed DLJWhitewolf's first comment it was a good setup to find out. If the marrage is not working out it is only right for the unhappy mate to be honest without sneaking around making sure the relationship might work out before they tell you "by the way, I want a divorce". We have every right to know what's going on so we can set or minds to the changes we need to make. It is not fair to not allow the other to know it's over and be able to have time for deciding what way their future is going to take them instead of being the last to know. Not saying Anthony that was in your case. I didn't work before so had to figure out how I was going to support my daughter and get a decent place to live. His girlfriend when I was moving out was already moving her things in. When I came back to get more items she had the nerve to tell me to knock first. I told her until I remove all my items it is still my house.

I wish you well and your kids emotional health.

sunnydaze

[shadowmedic]

anthony,
i have been out of the dating circle for years since i married my wife in '97. however, i can state that i've seen others go through similar situations as yourself. and even though i'm not a psychiatrist by any means, domination, manipulation and control are all factors of a sociopathic personality. be careful as to the extent that you allow this person to play games, if you can at all help it. it can be very dangerous and destructive behavior. and with children involved, things can get messy real quick as you've all ready previously noted. i have a quote that i live by. "you guard your own house. you guard your own yard. when trouble comes knocking at your door, you squash it like a cockroach before it starts to breed." good luck paison.