Therapist's and Client's Ethnic Background Match

[Linda]

Hi everyone,
I would like to ask a question which is probably mostly applied to Americans. In fact, most therapists are natural-born white middle-class Americans. They work with clients of all backgrounds: natural-born ethnic minorities, religious minorities, immigrants, lower-class, etc.
What do you think, preferably from your own experience: is that important for the sucess in treatment to be seen by the therapist of your own background? I mean, do the therapists in general know the cultural differences between various groups of clients, and take them into account? And can you establish good rapport with the therapist of the different racial/ethnic/religious/ect group, especially if there was historical changes between two groups?
For me, I would not like to be treated by the Russian Ametican therapist. First, I had noticed a positive side of tha language barrier: there are some things I will never say in Russian, but can say in English. Second, I had never belonged to Russian community in the US, for many reasons. Finally, being in interracial marriage, I know the negative attitude of many Russian Americans have about it.
However. As a part of my trauma is related to the discrimitation against Hebrow people in home country, I would be feeling more open with the therapist who belongs to a minority group, for example black or Latino. Also, since our family based on Latin American family values, I would like my therapist to be familiar and accepting with them, rather thatn saying "you are being oppressed by a husband".
But what are the experiences of the Forum members in this aspect? It is especially interested to hear from those who belong to minority groups.

[cactus_jack]

I have had a big problem with counseling where I am because I don't have access to the counseling I need. Instead I was referred to a man that is hispanic, and he has insulted me several times, and I wasn't even seeing him as a counselor yet. I was told that I need to be more tolerant of different cultures. My attitude is screw culture, you don't insult your clients. He's not too fond of me either as the last time he insulted me I told him once more and I'll report him to immigration. I figure he wouldn't be angry over that IF he was here legally.

Anyone here in the US likely understands that issue, I'm sure.

[kers]

Anyone here in the US likely understands that issue, I'm sure.

I disagree, strongly. Please don't make such assumptions.



As to Linda's original question, I'm comfortable having differences from my counselor. He and I are of the same race, but different socioeconomic classes and very different religiou backgrounds. I am completely unaware of whether we share political or philosophical viewpoints, but he is not critical of mine, which is what means the most to me. I feel free to express my thoughts respectfully.

[hodge]

What Kers said, about the quote above.

[vera]

I have had a big problem with counseling where I am because I don't have access to the counseling I need. Instead I was referred to a man that is hispanic, and he has insulted me several times, and I wasn't even seeing him as a counselor yet. I was told that I need to be more tolerant of different cultures. My attitude is screw culture, you don't insult your clients. He's not too fond of me either as the last time he insulted me I told him once more and I'll report him to immigration. I figure he wouldn't be angry over that IF he was here legally.

Anyone here in the US likely understands that issue, I'm sure.

um... sorry, but that's just plain xenophobia. i don't mean that you have to like him to be politically correct, but you take it too far.

it sort of brings me to the same state than hearing that people with ptsd leave their partners because they have ptsd and want to shut them out, and there's no chance that they just don't want them anymore, met someone else, or want to be alone to party. you make it sound like he's rude because he's hispanic, leaving no window open to consider that maybe he's rude just because he is, or because you're rude to him too, or many other factors.

i'm not saying that it's ok that he insults you. but being hispanic myself i can't just let you go around thinking that all hispanic people are rude and illegal immigrants and not call you on it.

yes, what you said sounds like you think that. if you don't, please clarify.

vera

[Linda]

HI everybody, and thank you for responses.
CJ, I do not think you are right about "Anyone in the US understands this issue". From my experience of communiczting with Hispanic people (I am married with a Latino man and have many Latino friends), I concluded that Hispanic culture is pretty acceptant and tolerant toward others. My extended family includes people of many races and ethnicities (actually - from Germans to Nigerians :smile:), and I had never seen an avidence of prejudice between them.
Also, I do not think it is appropriate to report him to INS. Probably there are professional organisations dealing with such cases as malpractice in therapy and all that.

Vera, I think you had misanderstood Cactus Jack. From his post, I learned that his therapist is a rude person and probably does not have appropriate skills to work with people, but not that he is rude because of his origin.
By the way, you wrote you are Hispanic... Where are you from?

[morgan]

One of the best counselors I ever had was African American with some hispanic too. I am white. So no. I don't think it matters. I think what matters is whether or not they're good at what they do... And your attitude towards race. If you got a problem you can't get past, they can't help you.

[hodge]

Vera and Morgan - well said!!!

We're all human beings!!!!

[Linda]

Hodge, of course we are, however I think culture matters. Just think of this: there are things which may be normal for one culture and abnormal for another one. There are even some culture-related disorders.
I think the therapist should definetely be aware of the client's background. For me, it is not a problem to work with therapist of a different race, ethnicity, religion, etc (actually, gender is the only thing I have strong preferences about). It is however understandable if one wants a help from the person coming from the same group, especially if we are talking about minorities.

[veiled]

I swore I would not touch this posting since the original really is dripping with racism honestly and hard to figure out what angle to approach this from. If you make assumptions about a certain group of people and do stereotyping based on ethnicity or birthplace... It is called racism. It sounded like to me Linda you are making assumptions people would not understand the "culture". Considering you are in America, this country is a melting pot of cultures and takes understanding from everyone everywhere. This is not Russia, there are standards here and if they were not followed these people would be out of business. I would even go as far as to think maybe Russians who moved here may be leaving behind exactly what you did, Russian life for American. And since you stated you have never belonged to a Russian community here then you can't say you know otherwise can you?

I will agree based solely on what CJ said it was not immediately apparent his issue was the man was Hispanic. It did however show he has anger issues and with PTSD out of hand some horrible things can escape our lips if someone is jacking with us. Is that PTSD based or just being racist? Don't know, only CJ can tell us. Plus we did not hear the whole story.

I am just wondering where is it really racist and what is triggering in the PTSD sense? I mean I could understand where Linda is coming from if this was a trigger being she is from Russia, then it isn't just a race thing. I could understand CJ if this was PTSD out of hand and/or his perpetrator was Hispanic... There are too many other factors that could be at play here and the stories are not being complete.

Like a woman who was here briefly a while back. No idea what her background or race was but she was triggered by black men, if I recall right she was attacked by a black man. See that is not being racist, it is a trigger of PTSD symptoms and I would seriously doubt she could ever make through one counseling session with a black man. Your triggers have to not be set off right out of the gate if you want a chance to get your triggers under control.

So after being long winded... If we were a normal group of people discussing this CJs and Linda's statements would be horrible. Since we are not "normal" and PTSDers and we all have different triggers there are a lot of other factors that need to be considered and worked on from there.

Not defending anyone or their ideas, just putting some alternative ideas out there to kick around with it.

[becvan]

Linda, according to your posts of late you are:

Russian, Hebrew, Atheist, and American. But you also throw in for good measure, Latino values (which is 99% of the time Devout Catholic.)

So if your looking for a therapist to match this, forget it. It's not going to happen. You throw so much into your "minority group" that it would just confuse anyone trying to listen to begin with.

Therapists are TRAINED to be sensitive to others cultures and values. If they do not understand an aspect, they are taught to CLARIFY the difference so that they may be of some help instead of ignorant about it. It does not matter what background they come from. They are not there to talk about themselves or their religious views. They are there to give therapy to the client. Not themselves.

Throwing this whole.. well minorities could especially understand is a cop out. This is nothing more than reverse racism. I see it all the time. I'm a minority. And I do not subscribe to this narrowed, judgmental way of thinking just because some one comes from another culture, religion or has a different colour of skin. And I most certainly don't try and hide it behind "well I'm a minority."

When your looking for a therapist, your looking for someone who is knowledgeable in the field of your issues, that you can connect with, that you can learn to trust and respect. If all this other crap is an issue, it's yours not the therapists.

bec

[Linda]

Veilid,
I think you had misunderstood my point (or I did not express it well). I was talking about of the effects ethnic/cultural background on establishing of a good rapport between the therapist and the client. This is not necessarily a race issue: also includes religion, gender, political beleives, etc. And it does matter for some people. What I wanted to ask is about personal experiences of the Forum members in this aspect.
***And since you stated you have never belonged to a Russian community here then you can't say you know otherwise can you?***
See, I also stated that I did not belong there for many reasons. I do not stereotype, I just know that culture matters. When I began to date my first boyfriend in the States, who was a black guy from Haity, most of my Russian American friends turned away from me. It is a long story, actully.
Of course, people do understand that there are certain standards which must be followed. But understanding is not all we need.
I mean pretty much the same thing you are talking about: how, if at all, historical tensions between two groups (and maybe a trauma caused to you by people of the certain group) influence your wish to be seen by the therapist of the very same group.
I think it is an interesting question, which, of course, should be discussed in peaceful and respectful manner.

[grace5555]

Just a couple of quick thoughts here - my T has to be a female and other than that, I am pretty open although I do seek for one that has similar religious beliefs as that is a huge trigger area for me. Race-wise, I honestly can't see it making much difference unless we make it an issue. I think commonalities can be found in each other in any situation.

Grace

[Linda]

Bec,
I am not looking for the therapist of the same group with mine (especially, as you pointed right, I am "a little bit of everything"). My therapist is a white middle-class American, and I find her to be very professional and helpful, can not think of a better one actually. However I did not develop trust at once. For example, I did not feel comfortable talking about the discrimination I had faced in Russia. And it is also an influence of culture: I simply did not know what the therapist are trained for in the States, but had a pretty bad experience with inprofessional ones at home country.
I agree with all you say about hiding your owr racism behind the magical phrase "being a minority".
I***f all this other crap is an issue, it's yours not the therapists.***
This is exactly what I mean: what issues we may have.

[veiled]

Sorry if I used wrong word. I do tend to use racism and discrimination interchangeably. I should watch that. Your post was more discrimination actually. And you are contradicting yourself. How do you have many "Russian American" friends to abandon you if you never belonged to a Russian community within the states? And lack of understanding of cultural backgrounds is exactly what you were pointing out so why would understanding not be good enough?

Historical differences... Sorry that makes no sense. There are historical differences every where, that is America. If people let those lead them they would be living in the back woods married to a cousin with no social exchanges at all.

[Linda]

Veilid,
"Belonging to the community" and just having friends are two different things. I understand "Belonging to the community" as actually participaiting in its life somehow: for example, in my case, help to edit local Russian newspaper. I did have, and still do, some Russian friends (not too close friends, I do not know the proper English word for it). But there are very few.
Why underastanding may not be good enough... Well, I give you an example. For instance, a woman who is seeking help after raped may understand that male therapists are knowlegeble, but feels more comfortable with a female one. Same thing is possible with cultural issues: understanding that one is a good professional, but not developing enough comfort. It is of course client's issue, not therapist's.

[veiled]

Do you realize you are talking in circles?

[Linda]

What do you mean?

[veiled]

If you cannot see it following your own postings and responses not much I can say to show you. Except a bulleted list of contradictions which I am honestly just not going to invest that much time in as I don't see that as a productive use of my time at this point. If I really thought it would help I would but... Washing my hands of this thread as it is beyond counter productive, not making any sense at this point (to me), and I see it as someone is just trying to stir the pot, not making valid points about actual PTSD issues.

[Linda]

Well, Veilid, I am sorry you saw something I never ment. Or maybe my language barrier is so severe that I can not understand what you mean, or can not express my thought clearly.
What gave me an idea to write this post was a small article I read in an older (2001) psychology textbook. All I did was asking a question which I feel is important. However, if you think the discussion is counter-productive, it can be ended.