Don't Think I Can Forgive This One - Marriage Possibly Over

[Bella78]

Well, I have just had a most upsetting morning. My worst nightmare has been realised.

My sister visited my hubby (who for those of you who don't know has PTSD and moved out of our home a month ago) to wish him a Merry Christmas. She found him there with another woman. And her two kids. Right next to his bed she saw their cot and nappies and toys...

So it seems some suspiscions I have had for a while were correct. My husband has cheated on me.

And I find this out today, Christmas Day.

I really don't know if I can forgive this one. I'd say it's probably over.

After all I have been thru because of him and because of his PTSD and I have only ever tried to do the right thing. I have researched PTSD and come to understand. I have done my best to educate all our family and friends. I have patiently let him be and given him space. I have watched him waste our money and run our business into the ground. I trusted him when he said he was not cheating. I forgave all his lies and deceit and put it down to PTSD, but not this one. I don't think I can forgive this one.

Foolishly there is a tiny bit of me that hopes it hasn't really happened. I think maybe this girl and her children just needed somewhere to stay... but I think I am only deluding myself.

I am going to go and be with my family for Christmas, there is nothing else I can do. I sure as hell am not going to sit around here on my own feeling sorry for myself. It hurts too much.

I still love him and in that sense, I hope he is OK. Because I can imagine he will be filled with an enormous amount of guilt right now. I just pray he doesn't do anything stupid.

And God help me too.

[veiled]

Instead of offering any insight or advice at this time I will do what you need and deserve, I will keep you in my prayers.

[Jen]

Gee Bella thats not good! I hope you can get through the day ok with your family!
Thoughts are with you!

[empowered]

Thinking of you Bella. And like Veil I'm praying for you.:Hug_emoticon:

[Bella78]

I have been to lunch with tha family. It was not too bad, I am glad I made it. It makes it easier when there is a goegeous 2 year old in the family.

Thnaks for your prayers Veiled. I am praying too right now. And thatnks for your thoughts Jen.

His mother and sister has been in contact with him this afternoon and they were confident he was quite stable. But my sister who sprung him (and suffers from depression) is quite traumatised, angry and is feeling deeply for me. So she has felt the need to contact him for answers. Not understanding that it is just too soon for anyhting like that, plus failing to realise he probably just can't handle that right now. He has reacted in a fairly dramatic way, calling his mother hysterically.

I am so very worried about his mental and physical well being. I know he must be feeling a lot of shame and guilt right now. At least the man I know would be. But not sure how much of him is left in there anyway.

There is so much info that I have left out of this forum that fills some gaps with horrendous information. It may come out on here in time, soon, or I may never feel secure enough to share, even if you all don't even know who we are. Some of it is quite shameful. And dealng with that is hard enough, let alone being judged for it. This is a hell of a tangent, but I have found with every mental health practitioner we have dealt with (for both hubby and myself) who we have told the full story to, they have changed their tack after they are told in such a way that it is obvious they are judging. It's almost like you can tell they are not as willing to help because we are suddenly evil in their eyes.. Yeh, tough story, maybe one day....

I am so very weary and emotionally drained right now I think I will go lay down and sleep if I can....

[Lisa]

I'm so sorry. And on Christmas Day too...

I don't know what to say, other than I am thinking of you today.

Lisa.

[Bella78]

I had a good 3 hour sleep, really needed it I suppose. Got up to feed my dog, now propbably going to go back to bed.

I almost still can't believe it, but I am surprised at how much I am still thinking about him and hoping he is OK. I am so very worried about him being alone after this getting out. His mum said he is feeling dreadful - and frankly so he should. But not at the expense of him harming hiself. And I am afraid that is what I fear right now.

I also wonder, could I ever forgive him? Something tells me I could. That's sort of how I feel now... I love him so. But I am not a doormat. And if I did forgive him, would there ever be any trust and security again?

And then I think maybe I feel I could forgive him because the thought of moving on without him is too hard. I made a solemn decision to stand by him thru all of his PTSD and other crap (which is sure to be full on). I was going to wait for him and be here when I could have him. Why the hell after him doing this do I still feel like I could do that? Am I just a fool? A sucker for punishment?

[Bella78]

Now I can't sleep. I just feel sick.

[becvan]

Bella, I'm really sorry that this is happening.

Please do try to remember to take care of yourself. Your in my thoughts..

bec

[Jim]

Sorry to hear it Bella. Not a nice thing, especially this time of year. Take care of yourself. Wife and I are praying for you.

Jim.

[Bella78]

Thanks to all, Jen, Veiled, empowered, bec, Lisa, Jim and Kathy for your prayers.

I still feel so ill. But I am going to spend a couple of days with my parents. Being alone in our home here is a bit too hard. Sleeping last night was really not easy. And I imagine this is going to get harder before it starts to get easier.

I just don't know what to do, if anything about it now. Part of me wants to let him know how hurt I am. I want to hear him say it. I want him to tell me what happened and why he thought it was OK to do it. What was he thinking?! Another part of me is so sad for him and I love him so, and feel the need to let him know that no matter what heppens, in the ened everything will be OK, even apart and to not forget that...

I don't know if anyone is keeping touch with him and I feel stupid calling hi mother to check up how everything is. I feel like now I am just out of the picture and have no right to ask... but surely I do, after 9 years, a marriage and everything else.

[Felicitas]

Bella I feel with you, alltough i haven't experienced what you have experienced.
I don't want to say anything that it is wrong, but like to take the risk. So please choose what you like and forgive me for the rest.

It makes so much sense that you feel love and anger at the same time. You do love him and that is why it hurts so much.
I imagine that it is the toughest time of your life.
It is not easy to feel weak and betrayed.
Somehow I wished you could tell him how much you love him and how much you are hurt by him, but I don't know .........

I am with you in thoughts and prayers.

[Bella78]

Thanks Fel. I wish you could tell him too. I wish some how he knew and could remember everything we have shared and been thru togther. But the info I have recived is that he still has the girl with him. Apparently she has nowhere else to go. He is screwing a charity case instead of turning to his wife, partner of 9 years. What the hell is he thinking?

I am destroyed thinking about it.

[Jen]

Hi Bella I really dont know what to say as I have not been in your situation!
All I can say hang in there and hopefully he will come to his senses it seems that you need to get with him and have a talk and ask where is your relationship going?
Is it worth your while waiting for someone who is in a realtionship with someone else?
Thoughts are with you!
Jen

[Bella78]

Jen, I find it interesting that the way you have worded it, I could forgive him. Strangely even as early as I write this (found out 48 hours ago now) I feel possibly I could. But that is when I remember the good times. All our history. How very vulnerable and needy he is now. I still feel like I want to take care of him..! But then I wonder if I could even look at him without remembering what he has done and not want to explode or slap him. And the thought of being intimate with him frankly makes me sick right now.

And I would not call it a "relationship" with her. From what I can see, she is a no-hoper with nowhere else to live and she is a "party girl". Just what he needs right now as he is off the rails drinking and doing all sorts of other destructive stuff that I won't go into.

I have decided I am going to call him today. I am going to tell him I want him to talk to me about what is going on. I have a right to know and I have given this 2 days to simmer down. If nothing else I need to hear the worst so that I can stop feeling like we can fix it and I can move on with my grieving.

But I am so lost and alone today as my parents are both at work (staying at their place as it is too much to be in my husband's and my home) and I still can't bear to tell my friends, so any words of wisdom or advice will be most welcome right now.

[Jen]

All I can suggest Bella is to call him and see what he has to say but get your timing right there is no use talking to him if he is drinking?

[Bella78]

yes, I am going to call him but first want to dicuss it with his mother as she will have a better idea about his frame of mind at the moment.

I wouldn't expect he will be drinking yet, he should have the shop open today. At worst I imagine he will begin about 5pm, but how would I know really... the man i know (who he is NOT now) would not be drinking at all.

But it is a very good point. I will not leave it any later that about 5:30.

I am also not sure whether to attempt discussing on the phone or in person. Or call him to say I will come down to talk after shutting time. But then I am tempted to go unannounced to see what he is "up to" so he can't lie to me. But then, do I really want to see what I might stumble on?

[Bella78]

I have now spoken with his mother,with my family too. Seems he is dead certain I need to call it quits. She said the man she knows as her son is no longer there and she hopes I can get on with a life without him.

She gives me her advice not even 3 days after we learn or the affair, to get the house ready to sell etc etc. And also has the hide to suggest that the business is worth nothing... I have become suspicious about that and at the very least said I certainly would NOT be jumping into any sale of our home.

I have decided I need to speak with him in the morning and have told my parents and his mother.

I need to speak with him about something else I may share on here one day,or not, and above all, I need him to admit to and answer to what he has done. Like I said before.. if nothing else it will jolt me into the grieving process I need to begin....

God help me, this will not be easy....

[Nicolette]

Bella my heart goes out to you after reading this thread.

I have been cheated on in 2 relationships and can appreciate the devastation and betrayal you are feeling.

One thing I would like to say though is I believe that no matter what there is no excuse for cheating, PTSD or not..... and Anthony says so himself despite cheating on his first wife. He said that he knew what he was doing even though he had PTSD. You can read it in his blog I think.

My intention is not to upset you or hurt you but I would like to suggest that you do not take to accepting PTSD as an excuse for your husband to act this way. You may choose to forgive him and take him back, which I can totally understand, however I believe you need to make sure there are consequences for your husband's actions and not just let him walk back in your door if he has a change of mind....if you do there will be a higher chance of him doing it again if it was easy to get away with the first time.

I am sorry if this post is a little painful but I hope you can understand that my intent is not to hurt you. This must be a very painful time for you and my thoughts and concerns are with you. Please take care.

[becvan]

Bella,

I just wanted to through a few different takes on this. I'm not meaning, in any way, to sound insensitive or cruel.

Are you two separated? Or more importantly does your husband view this as a separation? The reason why I ask, is that if you are separated or he sees it as such, and no "rules" were laid down about it, he may not see this as cheating in any way.

Also, the give him space isn't really being adhered to here. Although well intentioned, you really are pushing him in the hope to manipulate him back into the home. Space means space. This has nothing to do with the cheating thing, btw, just something I've been observing.

bec

[Bella78]

Thanks Nic, I do hear you about not ever letting him think there are no consequences for these actions. But either way, it does not seem as though it will be an issue. It is almost certainly over. He is being very hateful. He has messaged me and been nasty this morning. I ignored it.

Bec, separated? Not even really. His words were that he needed some time away from me as he could not handle the fighting anymore. He said he did not want to end up hating me. That was due to my ignorance at how to care for a PTSD sufferer.Since as I have ranted before, no bastards told us what the deal with this bloody thing was really all about! So anyway, we never set ground rules with the "separation" in that regard. I had hoped to, once I felt he was more approachable,as I was trying to hard not to push him. And to be honest the boundaries I had planned on discussing with him were going to be more to do with how much and what sort of contact and support he was willing to accept and ways in which he could let me know if he needed more or less. I don't think infidelity would have even been discussed.

Secondly Bec, I take your point that it may hav seemed as though I was not giving him space, but the last few times I saw him and brought him things (food, clean clothes,etc.) he had responded well and others here on the forum encouraged me to slowly stick at whatever seemed to be working. In retrospect, he my have been semi-perceptive out of guilt I think.

I was only doing what I felt at the time was right. Seems without knowing any better and without meaning to,I may have stuffed it all up again.

[Bella78]

So as I have said, I plan to go see him today.I need to speak with him and that is all there is to it.The space thing? I could care less about it right now. After this he can have all the space he wants. I think I will need to be using all my energy to just keep my head above water. This is going to be so hard.

I had intended to go in the morning, but just did not want to gt out of bed. It is almost noon and I am still sitting here in my pyjamas. Got to get moving. I have a life to get on with.

Just not in such a hurry to go have this conversation. Will probably be the hardest thing I ever have to do.

[becvan]

Bella whatever you do, do not internalize that this is somehow your choice. Stuffing it up is no excuse.

I wasn't too sure about how your break went.. which is why I asked. Some people view a break as different things.

I do hope it goes as best it can for you Bella. I'm truly sorry for you.

bec

[Bella78]

Thanks Bec. I think what you are saying is to not blame myself? I don't really, but have a thought that if nothing else subconsciously I am going to think that and I am aware I need to dig it out and get rid of it. I will not let my guilt that I know I should not feel destroy me.

Not going to see him now.

His mother is there trying to sort out the paperwork mess and I need to give her a ot of paperwork. But she has pleaded with me not to come as she does not want me to get more upset. She said I should save my dignity.In other words, that bloody other woman is there.

The anxiety was overwhelming me anyway. Doubt I could have made it. It means going to our house and I don't want to do that now.

[becvan]

Yes that was exactly what I meant. I have been through cheating myself and I know how we look for what went wrong.. One thing I have learned, is nothing we did had anything to do with it. Cheating is a very selfish choice.

Nothing wrong with stepping back Bella. It just might save your sanity at the moment.

Take care of yourself.

bec

[Tammy]

OMG Bella, what a terrible blow for you to be going through after all the ard work you have been doing t try to work through his PTSD... I can understand how you still love him and want t slap him at the same time, but I have never met him and I just want to bitch slap him from here to next week...
Just a thought also, that business he has s technically both of yours so don't ever feel as though you can't go there because his new FB is there! You have just as much right as him to be there. And if she is there, is ti because she genuinely wants to help him out or because she thinks all businesses mae money and she'll be set! SOrry but your thread has made me so angry at him and her for causing you this pain! My thoughts are with you,
Tammy

[Bella78]

Thanks Tammy. You have the very same attitude as all of my loved ones around me. Strangely though, the anger thing is something I have only felt fleetingly a couple times so far. I think I moved through denial in wanting to forgive him, then I had to tell myself, "He does not want you anymore." and so now I am in distraction mode.

I am keeping as busy as I can with as much as I can handle for now. I am even going out on the town with friends tonight for New Years Eve. It will be hard, but what else am I going to do?

I am fairly convinced this is what was meant to happen, so I just want to keep moving forward. For now I can mamage to do that, so I shall. I suspect I may fall in a heap at some point soon, but until then, I am limping along. Very glad to be on holidays from work for the moment, but also looking forward to going back in a week to try to get on with my life and start fresh.

As far as the business goes, I really don't care right now. As I see it, nothing will happen that will do me over that I can't sort out with a good lawyer. So if it comes to that let it happen. I can't handle the anxiety of going down there right now anyway. So I still have not been in contact with him at all. I just can't.

If his new "thing" thinks she is getting her hands on any of it, she has another thing coming. She may not realise I am an intelligent, professional woman who could squash her like a bug if I wanted. Whatever. To be honest, if someone is sort of looking after him, that's probably better anyway. I can't believe I think that. The thing that hurts is her kids. He is probably all fun with them and talks to them etc. That cuts me. We were planning on starting to try for a baby later this year....

[Kathy]

I am most sorry to hear all this Bella! Not a pleasant holiday for you obviously. How are you feeling now that the holidays are over with? Please keep us updated and take good care.

[Bella78]

Thanks Kathy. No not nice. I hope you are all having a much better time.

The holidays have been hard. But the timing of everything was the absolute pits. Afraid the sentimental time has not passed for now just yet. In 3 days I will "celebrate" my 30th birthday without the man I thought I would spend the rest of my days with. But I will have my family and friends around me.

I got thru the holidays in avoidance/distraction mode. I have known the whole time I was doing it, but it was all I could to to get thru. Thinking about it all, thinking about him and what he has done, her, it has all been too painfull to acknowledge. So I have distracted myself from thinking about it as much as I could. But yesterday and especially now (5:00am - INSOMNIA OR WHAT!) it is all flooding in.

I can recognise a few "phases" of feelings I have gone thru. First I felt absolute horror and like my lefe was ending for the first couple hours. Now that it is all beginning to flood back I keep hearing myself screaming when I was told. I see myself collapsing, alone in my house and slapping the wall and crying, saying "No no no no!" after my sister arrived minutes later. All I want to do now is sleep but I can't get those moments out of my head. I am getting angry at myself that my ability to distract from my thoughts and pain seems to have gone.

But I do realise that distracting completely for too long is only going to make it more painful when I have to face it. ANd I will have to face it. So I guess maybe that's why I got up out of bedd, sick of tossing and turning, to come and get some of it out on here.

So the stages I have gone thru I think have been the initial shock (probably only a few hours), then denial and thinking maybe it only happened once and he is sorry and I can forgive him and he'll come home (this probably lasted 2-3 days), then I did the distraction thing - as much as I could, keeping "busy" and hence why I have not been on here much.

Now it feels like distraction is not working, or able to continue and with all the thoughts and pain flooding back, I yet again feel a sense of compassion. This could just be denial again I suppose.

I feel like my dear husband (who I love still, despite what he has done) must be so very tormented to have done such a thing that he really needs care and support. I feel a desperate need to speak with him now. I feel I need to let him know that regardless of what happens, I want him to be OK. I just feel like I must let him know that.

I also feel as though I need to ask him, once and for all, how he is feeling about us. Not that he can probably rationalise that right now anyway, and even though his answer is likely to crush me, I feel a need to ask him if he truly sees this as the end for us and if that is what he really wants.

There is something eating at me that says if he needs to be reached out to, I need to do it. I couldn't abandon that, no matter what he has done and no matter what the outcome.

I realise this will probably make no sense to anyone else and maybe not even to me when I read it back after I get some sleep.

I really hate this feeling inside me and I don't even understand it.

[Kathy]

I feel like my dear husband (who I love still, despite what he has done) must be so very tormented to have done such a thing that he really needs care and support.


Bella, I understand having compassion for him and still loving him and so forth, however I believe perhaps you are trying to excuse his behaviour by saying he is ill. As I said in private, perhaps it is easier for you to think he has done this because of his illness, perhaps it hurts less and offers you an explanation?

I will repeat a bit of what I said in private. As you know my husband also cheated on me. He was also ill, suffering from combat stress and alcoholism. We had been married 6 years and had 4 children together. However I had no pity for him. None. He was in the wrong, regardless of being ill. He needed to do a great deal of work upon himself to get me back: he relocated, changed jobs, quit drinking entirely, and went into counseling. I would not have accepted anything less. My love for him did not change the fact that I would not permit myself to be treated in that fashion. I thought of myself and my children first, him second.

Bella, perhaps you feel you are being kind by having compassion for him. However, pity or sympathy does PTSD sufferers absolutely no good. In fact, it is a form of enabling, and will only make them worse. You are in essence saying that because he is ill he cannot control himself nor make his own choices and decisions. That is incorrect. PTSD does not make him a child nor mentally incompetent. Additionally, if you "forgive and forget" immediately with no consequences, he will have learned he can do whatever he wants with you and get away with it.

I could be incorrect, however - from everything I have read, I am concerned that you are forgetting yourself in favour of his needs. You are also important and you need to develop a strong sense of your own self-worth, apart from him. If you do get back together, you will need to have confidence in yourself. He will always have PTSD and that is not easy to live with. You will need to be strong.

[becvan]

Bella maybe you need to hear this from a sufferer. PTSD does not make us cheat. I've had this for over twenty years. I cheated once, a decade ago, and it was an active decision to do so. I hated myself for it. I chose to not do it again.

People without PTSD cheat too. This is not an illness, it's a choice.

bec

[Jim]

As someone who cheated myself, must be honest here Bella. If my wife had not been so tough about it initially - had she forgiven me quick and easy and not expected much - reckon I would have taken advantage. I was a lazy bastard back then. Likely wouldn't have done all the work upon myself that I did do. Her leaving with the boys and not wanting me back for a time was a needed wake-up call. My bottom so to speak. Thank my wife everyday for it, as it forced me to seek help. Christ knows where I'd be today without it.

Every situation is different. However. Cheating is serious. A serious breach of trust and a serious hurt. Your not superwoman, feeling badly is natural. Don't fall into pity for him because of PTSD. He's a big boy and believe you me, he knew what he was doing.

Jim.