How To Help and When Not To?

[jolene]

For those who don't frequent the Introductions board, I'm Jolene and new to PTSD. My husband is a Marine and had told me a little before we got married that he had been diagnosed with PTSD quite a while before we started dating. I really didn't know anything about it and since he hadn't had any treatment for it I took his word that he was fine and didn't need "help"...he seemed fine to me. Sure, he drank a little too much on the weekends and had a bit of a temper sometimes but he was funny, caring, protective, adored my little boy and I fell for him.

Fast forward. We've been married now for two and one half years and have been having what I thought were marital problems for quite a while. About 7 months ago I almost left him and have felt that way at least a half dozen times since then. One of the major problems have been how he treats my son, who is now 7, and calls my husband "Dad." My son tries so very hard to bond with my husband and I just didn't understand what the major problem was. Every excuse h made sounded just like that: an excuse. Then he dropped a bomb on me...."I just can't connect with him and I don't know why. I can't connect with anyone, not even you." Out of all the clues there were, that's what made me think something major was wrong. I started doing research and stumbled on, really, the symptoms of PTSD. I could hardly breathe. The nightmares he has almost every night, the agressive behavior, the temper, not being able to connect, use of alcohol, on and on, everything was there. And here I was, for the last 7 months just thinking he was just turning into a big self-centered jerk. I still feel awful about that!

I don't know what to do now. He's not in any kind of therapy. He says he wants his life to change, that he hates how he feels now in just about every way, but will make changes himself because he's afraid of loosing his military clearance. From everything I've read so far, PTSD sufferers need help and without it things get worse. I also know I can't push him to get that help but I'm scared for him, scared for our family. He's so devoted to the corps but if he doesn't get help I'm worried that by the time the corps' done with him, there will be nothing of HIM left. I don't think I can sit around a watch things get worse for him but I don't know what to do.

[Nicolette]

Hi Jolene, welcome to the Forum and the Carer's section.

I am sorry to hear of your situation. As a relatively new carer myself with a partner who's PTSD is reasonably well managed I unfortunately cannot offer a lot of advice other than for you to do what you are doing - seeking understanding and knowledge for yourself. The one thing I do know is that a Carer needs support so that is one thing we can offer you here. As for your husband, from what I have learned, unfortunately he must take the steps to help himself. Perhaps some of the PTSD suffers can shed some light on what might be helpful for your husband.

Please take care and I look forward to talking to you more on the forum.

[Kathy]

Nicolette has given you a very good answer, in that gaining knowledge for yourself is most important, as your husband must want to help himself. You may be there to support him in his efforts, however he must do all the hard work upon himself, if there is to be any lasting changes. Do remember to take good care of yourself and your son in this as well, as the two of you are also important.

Although my husband is recently retired, I was a military wife, though I am in Canada rather than the USA. I read in your introduction that there is no support for you where you are stationed? How about for your husband? Most Canadian bases have some resources for counseling. Are you certain there is nothing for him? Perhaps he should speak to his physician? Even should your husband not want to leave the Marines, there is often therapy offered on bases. PTSD is slowly becoming less of a stigma in the military (though VERY slowly!). Take care.

[Damiea]

Hello and welcome to the carers.
I don't have much experience in what you are going through.. but having read lots on this board it makes me think that maybe your husband won't admit to himself he is sick? That he maybe hasn't looked into what PTSD is.. thinking the things he is feeling and going through are in his head or its "just him". Also with military I have heard many times its almost implanted into there head sort of that they CAN"T get sick.. especially mentally. Its a weakness that should be denied sort of. It is true he must do the work himself to get better.. and it is VERY hard work. But as a first step you might tell him you have been researching PTSD and if he is responsive maybe print out some info for him.. or even try and get him to check out this site himself. There are lots of military people on here that he could connect with and it might open his eyes that there is help for him and he could get better.
anyways.. hope things get better for you and feel free to ask any questions here in the carers section and also in the other sections for some info from the sufferers point of view too.

[jolene]

Thank you so much for your replies. It's nice to have people I can talk to about this:)

Kathy, I don't know much about how the corps handles situations like this but my h is afraid of going through the military for help. Doesn't want to talk to his command, doesn't want to go to medical, because he doesn't want to loose his clearance. I mentioned something about seeing a private doc in town being confidential and he said "maybe." I've looked for support groups, group therapy, anything. There also seems to be no private docs here that have extensive experience with PTSD, combat or otherwise. I was hoping to find some info that I could present to him to help eliviate at least some of his fears of getting help but I seem to be hitting a brick wall. I hate to think of it, but there's also a possibility he's using the "clearance" argument as an excuse not to get help. He wants to believe he's strong enough to make everything go away, even now, though it's been five years and things are getting worse. I'm very concerned about the downward spiral I'm seeing in him and also concerned about how this is all effecting my son. He doesn't think Dad loves him any more and when I try to explain that Dad just problems he's dealing with I can tell he doesn't believe me. Can't blame him when h goes almost all night without even acknowledging the little guy is there.

Damiea, you have a very good point. I don't think it's lack of knowing (his father has PTSD from service in Beruit that went untreated for 10 years....he's on meds, still in therapy and doing much better) but I think he's still fighting that he has it at all. He doesn't want to have it. We haven't had a discussion on how he feels but based on what I know about him, he would see it as a weekness, and he's a Marine. "Weak Marine is an oxymoron." If something isn't killing him he's strong enough to tough it out, that's his attitude. hmmm.....wonder if he'll ever see that it IS killing him, slowly.

I know I shouldn't, and won't, push him to get help but I'm wondering if there's any way for me to at least help him see the reality and seriousness of what he's dealing with.

[Kathy]

I don't think it's lack of knowing (his father has PTSD from service in Beruit that went untreated for 10 years....he's on meds, still in therapy and doing much better) but I think he's still fighting that he has it at all. He doesn't want to have it.

This is interesting Jolene. What is his relationship like, with his father? Perhaps he is ashamed of him, worried that he is becoming his father, all the "weak" points of his father that he is ashamed of, or something similar? My husband's father had PTSD from serving in Korea, and for years Jim considered him weak rather than ill, and was quite disgusted with him.

I do understand how difficult it is for service men to seek help, it is still quite a stigma. There are more helps in place now than previously, however that doesn't make it any easier. He could very well be in denial regarding having PTSD, or using having clearance as an excuse to not seek help. It is difficult to say if he is not being completely upfront with you. We have a few members here who are or have been in the military and I hope some of them will answer you on this aspect.

I know I shouldn't, and won't, push him to get help but I'm wondering if there's any way for me to at least help him see the reality and seriousness of what he's dealing with.

You are quite correct that pushing may only make matters worse. Unfortunately he does need to grasp the seriousness of this on his own. There may be times when you can bring up the subject "safely" and offer certain suggestions, however he does need to make the decision on his own. He needs to reach a point where he realizes he needs help and wants that help. Before that point, more pushing may simply make him more strongly opposed to the idea.

Damiea had a good suggestion, that he read here, if he agrees. There is much good information upon this forum, and he needn't become a member if he doesn't feel comfortable. Alternately you could print out articles for him to read. The information forums are a good place to start. Also for yourself. Please read as much as you are able, and ask all the questions you wish, of the carers and the sufferers as well. This is unfortunately a problem with no easy or quick solution, you are in it for the "long haul" as my husband would say.

Please do ensure that you also take care of yourself and also your precious child. I have seen far too many spouses become enmeshed in the situation with their ill partner and forget themselves and their own needs in the process. Have you read the following article:

http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread6507.html

It is from Veterans Affairs, and specifically tailored for people with younger children, such as yourself. It may be of some help. Take care and please keep posting.

[ruddy]

Jolene,

I'm posting as a sufferer and former caregiver for a spouse who sustained a serious brain injury. (I hope I'm not going "out of bounds" by posting here.

I'm not a former military person but some of your husband's behavior describes my own. I'm speaking primarily of denial and rationalizations not to get help. I don't know how common this is among sufferers, but I suspect it's rampant. You could start a poll among this group if you're interested in getting more feedback.

Being a caregiver can be consuming (make you lose your sense of self) especially if you ignore your own emotional and physical needs. While it may be inappropriate and ineffective to push him into therapy, IMHO it is appropriate to let him know how his behavior is affecting you and your son. You might also want to consider getting some professional guidance (counseling) on your own. You are also suffering.

Ruddy

[batgirl]

Just wanted to say Ruddy, no you are definitely not overstepping. Sufferers post in this forum too, I do once in a while and I am a sufferer. We are allowed to post anywhere. You make some really great points too.

Welcome to the forum Jolene. I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but I will confirm what others have said, that your husband has to be ready himself to seek help. My trauma took place in 2001, I was diagnosed in 2002, but I didn't start working on myself until 2006 (that's not to say your husband has to wait several years though... everyone is different regarding the time frame). I am doing a lot better now, but it did take me a while to realize how serious this was. I ran off from my family, so I didn't have them around to help me or push me, however I really doubt anything they would have said or done would have made a difference to me at the time. I wasn't ready, I hadn't reached a point where I wanted to work on myself.

[Claire]

Hello Jolene, I totally understand what you say about him 'not wanting to have it'. Thats a common thing for PTSD sufferers. I dont want to have it either! It a hard pill to swallow for most of us. Most, if not all of us go through the denial stage. I did and still do on occassion. I feel I shouldn't have it, I'm strong, confident etc. All that stuff, it must be even harder if you are in the military and also male. The thing is until he does accept it, and if it is PTSD then he can use all his qualities, strength, stubborness etc to work for him and help him get himself better. He's got to reach the point of needing to change things though and he can only do that on his own. You can support him and help him with it but its his decision to start with.

[jolene]

Kathy, his relationship with his father is distant. He doesn't talk about it much, but I know his dad was very hard on him growing up, didn't communicate unless it was yelling, etc. My h originally enlisted when he was 18 to "make dad proud." Apparently it backfired and when h told me the story three years ago, was still hurt enough by what his dad had said at the time that he cried in my arms. Broke my heart. Things are a little better now with the two of them since they have common ground (PTSD, combat, the corps...the two latter are pretty much all they talk about with eachother). MIL wasn't much help either. I think she got so caught up in FIL's problems that the kids took a lot of junk they shouldn't have had to. Also, her opinion is "It's the mom's place to love and praise. All the dad is supposed to do is make sure kids stay in line." That gives an idea of my h relationship with FIL.

Thank you for the link....I've read it and will try to keep mental notes in the back of my mind :)

Ruddy, thanks for your encouragement to discuss his actions' effects. Maybe if he can see that he can't just "isolate" everything, that it's not separate from the family, there'll be a better chance of him thinking about the situation at least. As a sufferer, could you suggest a way to approach the subject that would make you more inclined to listen? I don't want him to think I'm trying to nag or point fingers...then he'll just close off and I'll sound like the teacher on Charlie Brown.

Batgirl, like you, my h was diagnosed a few years ago, I believe in '02 from combat trauma in '01, though I could be a little off with the dates. It can get a little confusing since he's been to Iraq once and Afghanistan twice and doesn't talk about it. Before you decided to get help, did you find a way to live with it? What I mean is, do you get so used to having it that it seems you don't need the help or is it just a case of denial?


The difficult thing for me is finding the fine line between not pushing him to get help and not enabling him to stay the way he his. Things got bad for me this weekend. My head is not in a good, supportive place right now. I'm having a hard time finding motivation to understand, find ways to be supportive, research, etc. when he doesn't even seem to care that we're having problems. If it was just the two of us I think I could be more understanding (it's not what he does to me that bothers me), but every day I watch him hurt my son (emotionally) and by the time the little guy goes to sleep at night, I don't even want h to touch me. I feel very sorry that my h has this wound and know it's not his fault or a choice he made. Another part of me feels that while that is true, at some point he needs to be accountable for his actions, the choices he makes now and the way he treats other people. It's starting to make me angry that he's known for years that he had PTSD and does nothing. He watched what it did to his father and his family growing up, he's seen first hand the damage it does and chooses to do nothing. The fact that I'm getting angry is making me feel guilty. Are these feelings normal? Is it some kind of stage? Am I not being compassionate enough?

[Kathy]

The difficult thing for me is finding the fine line between not pushing him to get help and not enabling him to stay the way he his.

This you will learn through experience Jolene, though trial and error. At least, that is how I have learned to deal with it, along with constantly educating myself of course. That isn't to say I have now "arrived" either; far from it. I am constantly making mistakes and learning. The important thing is, to keep trying, keep learning, and be willing to admit your mistakes when you make them. You will never be the perfect carer, however if you are willing to be honest with yourself, you cannot go wrong.

The fact that I'm getting angry is making me feel guilty. Are these feelings normal? Is it some kind of stage? Am I not being compassionate enough?

Yes, feeling angry is very normal. Living with a PTSD sufferer can be most frustrating at times. The important thing is, what you do with your anger and frustration. Do you try to think of different ways to deal with a difficult situation, devise solutions for yourself? Do you speak to your husband openly about how you are feeling? You mention for example how he is treating your son, how your boy feels very sad and so on. That is something you truly do need to address with your husband. You and your child have rights as well. Your husband should not be permitted to walk all over you simply because he has an illness; you also deserve respect and happiness. And regarding compassion - compassion does not mean always being kind and sweet and retiring to another. At times it is more compassionate to point out to someone bluntly where they are going wrong. A little tough love can go a long way. Again, it boils down to honesty. Be honest with yourself and your family and you cannot go wrong.

[ruddy]

Ruddy, thanks for your encouragement to discuss his actions' effects. Maybe if he can see that he can't just "isolate" everything, that it's not separate from the family, there'll be a better chance of him thinking about the situation at least. As a sufferer, could you suggest a way to approach the subject that would make you more inclined to listen? I don't want him to think I'm trying to nag or point fingers...then he'll just close off and I'll sound like the teacher on Charlie Brown.

I don't have much to add beyond what Kathy has just said. I guess that is one of the reasons I suggested you might want to consider some professional guidance for yourself. A counselor should be able to assist you in approaching things in a more productive manner and help you deal with the pain you and your son are suffering. Of course there are no guarantees that will motivate him to get help. As others have said if he's not ready . . .

[jolene]

It's a beautiful day and I wanted to update you, especially those who gave me support and much needed advice. I'm sorry if this turns out to be very long but I'm overwhelmed and excited and wanted to share :)

My h and I had a very long conversation last night. It started out with discussing a small disagreement and led to him asking me why I'm so unhappy. I was hoping this would be one of those "safe times" to talk, and took the opportunity. I told him everything I have been feeling from how he treats my son to how worried I am about his happiness, his future. Though I tried not to, there were tears on my part as it was a very emotional, honest talk. After a while he said "well, I guess we resolved why we are both unhappy." The way he said it almost sounded resentful and I feelt the need to tell him that while I can guess and form my own opinions as to why he's hurting, he is the only one who can honestly answer that question. He asked me what my opinion was, why I thought he was unhappy. I sat there for what seemed like ages trying to think of how to say things. He was asking for my honest opinion (for once), and I felt down to my bones that this was the one time he might listen so I didn't want to goof it up. After the long pause I asked if I could show him something rather than tell him and he said "sure." So I pulled up a webpage that listed some symptoms of PTSD. The list was long enough that I could scroll down to view the list and the description of what it was related to wasn't visable. He read it and I can't explain why but I knew it was hitting a chord. When he was done with the list he scrolled back up and saw it was related to PTSD. He closed the computer and sat for a long time. Then it really started.

He started out with "I need to tell you something and it's probably going to hurt you very badly but it needs to be said." I braced for the worst. What he said shocked me. He told me that he's been pushing me away. Trying to make me hate him, despise him, want to get away from him. He doesn't want me around. When I asked why he told me it was because he knows what's coming and doesn't want to put me and Blake through what his mom, his sisters and himself went through with his dad. All I could think was what kind of person would hurt themselves to save someone else and then have to face this hell alone? Amazing. That's all I can say. He told me it would probably get worse long before it gets better. I didn't say anything. I didn't think he wanted me to talk and I certainly didn't want to break this communication stride. He went on to tell me how bad things are getting for him (much worse than even I thought it was), that the nightmares are getting worse, why he doesn't talk, that he's been trying to bury everything so we aren't subjected to it. It's like a wall came down, even if it was only for that couple hours.

I did the only thing I could think of doing. I said I couldn't relate to what he's been through or the struggles he would face but that I would be there for him. That it was my choice to stay and I wanted to be around when he needed me, to support him, and that when he just needed space he'd get that too. I followed ruddy's advice and had set up an appointment with our marriage counselor, but only for myself. The appointment is today. I told him about it and let him know that he was welcome to come with me if he wanted to. He said "we'll see." This morning he asked what time the appointment was and I told him. I said it would be nice to have him there and he said he'd like to be, so hopefully he'll be able to get the time off. He's supposed to call & let me know.

Even if he doesn't make it today, I think we've made a little progress. Him being able to open up to me last night is a huge step for him and for us. He's NEVER talked to me like that before. Thanks to all of you who gave me advice!!! Your words were with me last night and I know they helped me talk less about what I thought, wanted, needed and helped me just sit quietly and give him the time he needed to say what he needed to say. So, thanks again.

[Kathy]

Very good Jolene, I am very happy for you both. It is most definitely an important step, him being honest with you as he was. Admitting to such matters is far from easy. Very good also that you were honest with him in return. Really very well done, some definite progress made. Excellent to see, and please keep us updated.

[Nicolette]

Great news Jolene. I hope your appointment went well too.

[ruddy]

That is great news - a giant step for both of you!

[wildcritter44]

Hi Jolene, :hello:

Well Done ! :clap: Very important step in helping him see symptoms of PTSD.

Getting to a counselor, etc.

Check with your military chaplin about the "losing his clarence" thing, or maybe he can refer you to someone about it, that won't "violate a confidence" on your behalf.

------------
My name is Donna and my husband was an U.S. Army Airborne Ranger from 91-97. We weren't married then. I met him in 98 after he already had PTSD, but hadn't been diagnosed as yet. The VA is still "working on accepting that he 'has it' etc"

Hang in there you are not alone ...

hugs to you all...:Hug_emoticon:

Donna

[jolene]

Just an update:

My h got stuck at work and wasn't able to make it to the session last week but I think that turned out for the best. I was able to speak with the therapist freely about how everything is making me feel without having to worry about it effecting him. I was also able to discuss my h's worries over the effect therapy would have on his career (after 8 years in, he plans to see it through to retirement) and the therapist was able to help in that area. Since we came to him about marital problems, he would continue to treat "marital problems" and said nothing about the PTSD would go in the file if my h didn't want it to. He said he's had to do this for several other military, police, border patrol, etc. When I left I set an appt. for my h as just in case he remained open to the idea of going. I was so excited the rest of the day. So hopeful!!!

The conversation came up later that night about the session, and I asked if he knew the therapist was a veteran. That opened another door for him, I think. To make a long story short, he wanted to make an appt. and was even commenting about not being suprised if they put him on meds (something he's very much against....he hates even taking asprin) and that if it'll help him, he'll try it. Basically, he seems to have opened to the idea quite a bit since reading all the symptoms.

Also, the last week has been really nice. I can see he's making an effort, a very large one, to keep his temper under control. He didn't even yell at my son once last night - and there were plenty of times I was cringing, just waiting for it. And all this after he had a bad day at work. Usually a bad day equals an awful one at home. I know it's hard for him but he seems to be trying.

So, that's where we are right now. I'm interested to see how Monday will go (his appt.) but am enjoying the slice of peace I've had lately :)

[Nicolette]

The conversation came up later that night about the session, and I asked if he knew the therapist was a veteran. That opened another door for him, I think. To make a long story short, he wanted to make an appt. and was even commenting about not being suprised if they put him on meds (something he's very much against....he hates even taking asprin) and that if it'll help him, he'll try it. Basically, he seems to have opened to the idea quite a bit since reading all the symptoms.

That's really good news Jolene. Progress and willingness is a wonderful sign.

[Kathy]

That is indeed good news Jolene. Please let us know how the appointment goes.

[jolene]

sorry it's taken so long to post but things have been busy around here, much like everyone else I'm sure. H's appointment went well, I'm guessing. He went alone & seemed to be looking forward to it. He hasn't said much about what went on but that's fine with me. He has been in much better spirits since that day. We've got a couple's appointment on the 19th. It sounds like the therapist would like to do treatments with just H and then separate ones with both of us. I think I like that idea. Seems to me it would keep me in the loop in regards to progress and I think it'll help him stop compartmentalizing the PTSD ("it's my problem and doesn't effect the marriage").

I did get some bad news this last week though...looks like he'll be going on another deployment sometime in the next 8 months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll have some good coping skills under his belt before then. Trying to stay positive :)

[KatrinaSurvivor_BSL_MS]

Hello, My name is James. I am new here to the forum. To save time, my introduction is here. http://www.ptsdforum.org/58863-post1.html

I am in a similar situation with my wife's PTSD. She has been in therapy and on meds for the last 2 years since Hurricane Katrina. She is past the denial of her condition, yet I don't know when to, or how to be helpful to her. It is hard to see my beautiful bride of 13 years reduced to such a state. I do what I can to keep things stable in our home for all of us. It gets really difficult at times. I wish you all the best with your husband.

[Nicolette]

Welcome James.

[Kathy]

I wish you much success regarding the therapy Jolene. It is very positive that you will also be attending some sessions. PTSD absolutely does affect your marriage and your whole family life really, so it is best to be involved as much as you can.

I did get some bad news this last week though...looks like he'll be going on another deployment sometime in the next 8 months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll have some good coping skills under his belt before then. Trying to stay positive :)

That is a good attitude, to be positive about it. I read in the other thread he is happy about it as well? Will he be going to Iraq or somewhere else? Do take care Jolene.

[pastrychefarmywife]

hi jolene, i don't know where i was before, but if you would like to IM me, its foreverbj on msn messenger. i have a hubby in the active army, and a young son as well. your story is very similar to mine.

How is the PTSD going?

[raptu94933]

DOUG,I am new to this problem but my son has it and has had it for a long time but my wife and i didn't have a clue why this young man had changed so rapidly but in looking back it wasn't rapidly it had been coming for a long time and we didn't see it.Now we no and we are trying to talk to him and get him help but no luck yet. My question i need so badly is for someone to tell me the do's and dont's a person is suppose to do in helping to deal with a person who has this proble.Anyone have any suggestions.

[Nicolette]

Hi Raptu and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry to hear about your son. You may find some answers to your questions in the Carer's information section http://www.ptsdforum.org/forum43.html. Being a Carer of someone with PTSD is an ongoing learning experience and I hope by reading here you can find some insight. Being armed with knowledge is fundamental to finding an understanding of how you can assist.

Feel free to share more of your son's situation so others may be able to contribute with their experiences which may be helpful.

Once again, welcome and I look forward to talking to you on the forum.

[Cowgirl]

Thank you for posting that link, Nicolette. I had not found those articles before. I don't know how I missed them, but I've been sitting here reading and reading and reading. There is such a wealth of good info! Cowgirl