What's the Best Response?

[goingonhope]

This is goingonhope and my husband has a question. I am diagnosed with PTSD. My husband is not; So he would be the carer, but I prefer the words: the spouse of someone with PTSD.

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Here's his question and in his words:

"When a PTSD sufferer's point of view is the only one that that PTSD sufferer will consider, how should the spouse proceed?

Should they just accept it, or present their own point of view regardless? Or, should they never try to present their point of view for fear that it will bring out adverse PTSD symptoms in the sufferer?"
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I hope someone will feel free to respond openly, honestly and from either knowledge or experience, or both.

Hope

[Nicolette]

Hi Hope

In my opinion, based on my limited experience, I would say that your husband should feel like he can voice his opinion in a relationship. What the spouse does with the opposing or different opinion is up to the spouse. Add PTSD to the mix and I would still same the same thing but I would recommend that your husband pick his times and pick his battles. I have learnt not to sweat the small stuff but PTSD is not an excuse for the other spouse's opinion not to be heard or counted if relevant.

There are times when I would love to say something and bite my tongue and wait until a better time but, in my opinion, it would be an unhealthy relationship for me not to have a voice as then I would possibly develop a resentment that my opinion did not count let alone be heard.

[Nicolette]

Here's his question and in his words:

"When a PTSD sufferer's point of view is the only one that that PTSD sufferer will consider, how should the spouse proceed?


I have been thinking about this further and I think I missed answering this part of the question.

There were some posts awhile ago and Veiled said something along the lines of being somewhat indirect, like dropping hints, rather than the spouse of the PTSD suffering outright saying what they wanted to. I am sure Veiled will correct me if I misunderstood. I took this comment and sometimes apply it in my relationship when Anthony is not as well as normal. Rather than state my point of view and make an issue of it I turn it around and say, as a passing comment, have you thought about this or I heard this etc and leave it as that. What I then find, at stressful times, is that Anthony then processes it in his own time and usually comes back to me in a day or two willing to either discuss what I had to say or even sometimes, taking note and making a positive change without any real issue.

[johnny_longtorso]

Like everything else, it depends. There is no "right" answer or hard-and-fast rules. Your husband should absolutely feel able to present his view on any given point, but he should be aware that there may be consequences from doing so. It is difficult for the ptsd sufferer to take constructive criticism without feeling like it is a personal attack. The reaction may be completely out of proportion to the disagreement.
When my wife is having a particularly bad time of it, it is hard for her to maintain even a minimal train of thought, let alone plan a meal, or tomorrow's activities. At times she has an unreasonable fear of situations/people/places/things, and she will do everything within her power to avoid them. This makes a very effective, inpenetrable logic shield.
So, I would advise your husband to pick his battles--if it's not really a big deal, leave it alone. If it is a big deal, go ahead and bring it up. If the symptoms are getting in the way, try again when the spouse is in a better frame of mind.
Good luck.

[veiled]

Lord, the way he just described me made me feel like an ass. But Hope I asked him to respond to you as well, a spouse needs to answer it. Maybe both our takes will help. And you are helpful enough to me I pressured him.

Never give up your point of view but timing goes a long way. If I am in a mood I guess I can argue anything (so can our kid so who says it is all ptsd there?). But if in my mood I am not being argumentative I am really stating how things are from my perspective at the moment.

A shield you cannot bust through like he pointed out. You know if you are not trying to force a thought on me there is no shield. It only looks like it as it is being pushed too hard. Like Nic said many things can be hinted or said in passing. May not seem I am listening but it weighs on me hard. I do come around. I just need nudges not too firm in the right direction. I mat not respond as fast or the way one wants but I do come around. It seems to be like all marriages, it is a dance you learn. One you both share and do well together. Try another person you will trip and fall on your ass. This one takes knowing and trusting your partner from both sides.

[anthony]

Short, sharp and to the point hope. If your opinion is the only opinion accepted, how exactly do you grow? How do you learn? How do you test whether your opinion is wrong in the first place?

[Nicolette]

Noted Sweetheart :wink:

[Kathy]

As others have said, picking your battles is most important. It is my motto for life in general, whether one is dealing with a PTSD sufferer or anyone else. I doubt Jim and I could have stayed married as long as we have, had we argued or challenged every point on which we disagree!

I do agree though also with being short and to the point. When it comes to opinions, everyone should be allowed to voice theirs; one party having an illness should not matter. If you never challenge your ill partner's opinions, even when you believe them to be wrong, it is a form of enabling. Having an opinion and stating that opinion is not the same as constant nagging or trying to get your partner to change their minds about a matter, or at least it shouldn't be. You may still simply agree to disagree, once the opinion has been stated.

[anthony]

For carers, this is how I approach a PTSD sufferers forceful self. A sufferer is typically very stuck in their ways, good or bad. If you try and fix them, the information just won't sink in. If you want them to change, don't give them just your opinion, instead, give them various options, one of which is yours obviously, though do not state which. Simply ask them, "If what your doing is working for you so well, then why do you feel like x?" is a very good question to a sufferer. It is about not fixing them, but pushing them in a direction in which they will think about options and most likely take one of those options. You can call it a form of manipulation if you like, but at the end of the day the choice is theirs to which option they take. That is how you open a sufferers eyes to different ways. The moment you try and force your opinion down their throat they will only resist harder, so instead you add your opinion in with other methods, ways, whatever your opinion is about, then you present options to the sufferer in which they choose. Then, if your option (opinion) is wrong, they won't dig in harder, yet may feel another option you presented them is good for them, better than what they are using now, and adopt that instead.

Opinions = personal options.

[batgirl]

Okay I am a little confused. In this question, is it the point of view on any subject, or just on subjects relating to PTSD and healing it? Because those are two totally different things.

[anthony]

I would presume all subjects from reading the question myself, though that is my interpretation as neither where specifically mentioned.

[batgirl]

Yeah but if it's on any subject that doesn't make sense to me. Aren't I entitled to have my point of view regardless of having PTSD? Just because I have PTSD doesn't mean my opinions aren't valid or that they need to be changed.

[anthony]

I don't believe that is what its asking Evie. It asks if the PTSD sufferers opinion is the only opinion that counts for the PTSD sufferer within a relationship. I don't believe it specifies specific PTSD aspects, simply that a persons opinion is the only right opinion, which isn't necessarily correct. Because what the question is basically asking is: How do you give your opinion to someone who doesn't want to listen to another's opinion? This is quite typical in a sufferer... it takes a change of thinking style to be open to listen to another's opinion, and value others opinion and accept that your opinion whilst valid, may not always be the right way to approach something.

I think that is what this is about!!! Though please correct me if wrong Hope.

[batgirl]

Oh okay thanks for that explanation, that makes more sense to me now. I understand needing to convince someone to do things a different way, or convincing someone that they need treatment or whatever, but the words "point of view" and "opinion" kind of threw me off. Because, a carer can be just as wrong in their point of view as a sufferer. But I guess that isn't the point and I probably shouldn't be participating anyhow as I'm not in a relationship.

[anthony]

Because, a carer can be just as wrong in their point of view as a sufferer.
Absolutely agree Evie....

[Mr.Bo.Angstman]

I don't know what to say. Maybe, I could say more if my wife wasn't involved or able to read this. Here is an example of what I am talking about: I think right from the beginning because of my alcoholism, in regards to the children, my opinion always ends up secondary in regards to how to raise them. Instead of dealing with a specific issue about our children, my wife has a tendency to turn it around and make it an issue about me and not the children. And thus the specific issue that we began to opine about becomes lost. This seems to be the most prevalent problem we have, in my opinion, when we are involved in discussion.

Another examples is the very frustrating issue of overspending on the children with money we don't have. When I bring up the issue of overspending on the children, it can easily get turned around into an issue about our overspending on ciggerettes, and the issue of overspending on the children get lost and forgotten.

I certainly don't mean to say that every issue discussed by us has two different points of view or lacks my wife's consideration and respect. I do, however believe that I have been practicing picking my battles, but I am averse to bring these issues up at a later date due to the ramifications of her PTSD symptoms arising.

By the way, Thank you for all of your inputs regarding this matter. I have gained some insight and it has been very helpful.

[Kathy]

Thank you though for explaining the situation with a couple of examples. That certainly helps me to understand better. As my daughter (batgirl) mentioned the question was a bit general. I can relate to the situation about your alcoholism, though I am on the opposite "side", as it is my husband with alcoholism, though he stopped drinking years ago. Whilst drinking he cheated on me, and even though the matter has long been resolved I must confess I occasionally will bring up the cheating and any other past transgressions of his as a way of "winning" any arguments we have. It is definitely not fighting fair and I am trying to stop. I cannot speak for your situation as I don't know all the details. However for my own, I have had to work upon myself, as it more my problem than my husband's. I am currently examining why I am still resentful and why I feel the need to bring up matters which occurred years ago. In any event I do now realize it is a way of manipulating my husband into doing what I want.

Maybe, I could say more if my wife wasn't involved or able to read this.

If you would like, I am more than happy to admit you to private carers. It is a private area of the forum for carers only. You may speak freely there as no one with PTSD sees the contents of that forum and it is completely confidential.

[goingonhope]

:hello:Honey, I'm proud of you for your willingness, your effort and your honesty and despite any understandable hesitency.


Personally, I can't thank All of you enough for this discussion, insight and help. This feedback has opened a supportive door for both personally my husb. and I, and him & I as a much hoped for team. It motivated and initiated some open, respectful, far less fearful discussion of particularly a certain touchy topic.

Thank you honey for sitting with me tonight and discussing certain important material. I heard you and have owned my share of what we personally discussed and will take best direction and a more appropriate course from here.

You know what though, I think you did leave something out.

I suffer the severest of my PTSD symptoms sporadically and when under too great of stress. Or, unresolved trauma happens to surface and I'm either dealing with it or neglecting to do so, bc of life and time-constraints. What I feel he left out is that there are those times sometimes, indeed when I am way over stressed, filled with high anxiety and ill with other PTSD symptoms, and lacking much ability and/or willingness to consider my husb.'s point of view-(generally after I've accused him of something), but not always when overly stressed and seriously ill, and only when thouroughly confused, distrusting of him and while getting him confused with my father and/or another family member from my past.

Hope

[goingonhope]

As my daughter (batgirl) mentioned the question was a bit general.

Evie, your comments ended up helping me more than you may know. As I too felt the statement and question posed were a bit general and therefore unintentionally perhaps confusing or misleading. But, I refused to alter a word of his question. I simply deeply appreciated that my husb. was willing to toss out a personal question of his own in the hope of some release, feedback and possible help.

Tonight I practiced patience, understanding, trust and restraint of my two-cents, though it wasn't bad what I was thinking, just simply in my defense and unneccessary. I admit it wasn't the easiest thing to do so. Because of my fears, I have struggled so much with any room left for possible misunderstandings or interpretations, but I now know with me simply being honest and open to the best of my abilities, that I don't need to be defensive in my communications as there is nothing to shy away from anymore or avoid exposure of. I'm getting to know myself more thouroughly, hold greater self-trust and beginning to like myself, though I still hate this PTSD sh't symptoms.

I didn't even necessarily like the way he worded his question. Feared it was too vague, somewhat slanted, biased, ...basically simply too general, but oh' well it wasn't my question to ask. It was for him, and at the time he couldn't access his pers. membership. Now he can.

The fact was, it was his question, word for word, not mine and so I just left any clarification up to him or not, and was appreciative that he was willing.

I'll say though the pressure within me was building as I read on more, up until he got to posting and clarified things for me as well. It was your posts Evie that relieved some of my pressure til this point.

Hope

But, I am glad everything worked out just the way it did, and from what I understand from him, he is most appreciative for the understanding he's received.

[anthony]

I am just glad that it helped you both to break down the barriers off one particular issue. It doesn't matter how you break that barrier down, just that you have and the door for discussion is open on a more understanding level. Well done to you both.

Hope, I think you need to be a little careful though where your heading with your statement surrounding PTSD, being it sounds as though you use behavioural aspects as an excuse towards your husband at times.... when we both know, its not an excuse for our behaviour as we could change how we approach our own illness and symptoms, ie. I am feeling ill and must go lay down; or; I am feeling unwell and need some alone time to try and reduce my anxiety, so I'm going to go for a walk. You get the idea. Compared with what is being explained above.... though this is just as I read it. Did I read it wrong? That is for you both to answer... not just one or the other!

[pastrychefarmywife]

ok, so, i understand to pick my battle, i have been a surrendered wife for 2 yrs, not physically but surrendered meaning controlling myself, but what i am confused on, is that there was a post stating many things pointing to the PTSD sufferer? wouldn't they feel cornered when doing that? please help, as i am new to the ptsd 'carer' side.

[Kathy]

What post are you referring to pastrychef? Your question is a bit general so I am uncertain how to answer.

[batgirl]

Evie, your comments ended up helping me more than you may know. As I too felt the statement and question posed were a bit general and therefore unintentionally perhaps confusing or misleading.

Oh wow, for once my confusion actually paid off and helped someone. Thanks for that Hope, I feel better about having posted in here. I was feeling silly about it before I read this.