Who Traumatized You

[upstream]

Curious to know about the person who traumatized you. If you have more than one offender, choose the one who instigated your most sever trauma. If the person falls into more than 1 category, choose the one that best describes why the traumatic event happened.

If you are willing to share, I'd like to hear if this person has since changed or made amends, or if you believe this person is capable of such.

[upstream]

Here are the most destructive people in my life:

My mother was diagnosed as bipolar with evidence of psychotic episodes. She has also been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. She has since improved drastically, and she seems quite normal these days.

My father would fall under the category of does not understand (bad case of secondary wounding and neglect) I'm not sure he ever will understand, I think he's in denial.

My therapist says my last boss most likely has Anti-Social Personality Disorder, and I what I have read about the disorder is an apt description. Superficially charming, manipulative, deceitful, no empathy/sympathy/remorse, self centered and enjoys hurting/bullying others. He will never change, I am certain of this.

Many of my destructive relationships in college were with people who had strong evidence of a personality disorder. I believe they can learn how to behave correctly on the surface, but will never be better on the inside.

Many of my relatives on my mothers side did not understand because all of their information about my family came from my mother. They haven't changed who they are, but they have changed how they perceive us and treat us.

[Claire]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this. I dont think I fit into any of the categories. I was in a car crash. It was an accident. The guy that hit me didn't intend to. No one was to blame exactly. Is this what is meant by this poll?

[Lisa]

I found it hard to answer as there are several people who traumatised me. They are:

Abuser number 1 - did not know him, barely remember him (i was 7) so I cannot say if he was generally deranged or clinically deranged or otherwise. Don't know if he has changed, however I doubt it.

Abuser number 2 - this is the one I clicked to -did not believe his actions were wrong. He most probably hasn't changed, and don't expect he will. He is a child abuser who justifies his actions as guilt-free and 'right', and about 'love'... And so he does not believe his actions to be a crime.

Abuser number 3 - did not believe his actions were wrong (assault). Perhaps he could change... or generally fall into the title of 'tosser' rather than 'abuser'

Abuser number 4 - random person assaulted me, seemed sober, not drugged, but generally deranged or 'odd'. I think this man is reigning free, very dangerous, and probably going to only get worse in his actions.

Ex therapist - total wanker. Thought his actions were right. DEFINITELY deranged. He won't change, certainly hasn't so far.

Father - Schizophrenic, personality disorder, alcoholic, OCD sufferer - didn't help much, but he would have been a wanker without all this too. Didn't see his actions as wrong (still doesn't). He has improved in *some* aspects, mainly needs to be put in his place, then he will conform (ie. my mother stands her ground more now, and as a result his behaviour is a little changed). I don't believe he will ever understand his actions to be wrong -total denial, and well... he has a personality disorder, and this is understood in the psychiatric field to be 'untreatable'.

School bullies - generally not right in the head. I think these may grow up, though I have since seen one who doesn't seem to have. Again... more into the category probably of 'unintelligents' as opposed to 'ill'. But perhaps I am biased.

I think this is a hard poll to post as some people are not traumatised by people specifically, like claire has said... for example, crashes, hospital experiences, operations, illness, death... for these traumas, people may not necessarily have been the cause of trauma - rather the impact of the trauma that may not actually involve people directly... So perhaps another option needs to be in place for those??

Good poll though.

[batgirl]

Upstream, you can actually choose to let people vote for more than one option in a poll. That might have been better in this case, especially for people with multiple traumas. Also, I guess you are excluding military, police, rescue workers and those were not traumatized by a person(s)? Why is that? Are you interested in the nature of people who abuse others? I think the poll is good too except I don't understand the purpose of it exactly either.

I wasn't sure how to vote. I was shot by my stepdad, that is my major trauma. He was a soldier and my family believes he has PTSD though he was never diagnosed. I feel like the top 5 options all fit him in some respects, but not any of them totally. He was sick, but he had been well for most of my life. So he was normal prior to the events. He was depressed and suicidal when he shot me. Did he know what he was doing? I don't know, he committed suicide at the scene. Was he drinking? Yes, quite heavily for about a year before the trauma. Was he mentally ill? Yes if he had PTSD, but I don't feel comfortable exactly placing him in the same category as say, a schizophrenic. My cousin has schizophrenia and it's a completely different illness. I don't know, maybe I'm thinking about it too much but I'm confused as to how to answer.

[upstream]

Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should also exclude natural disasters, accidents, and anything that could be considered the nature of your job. Claire, you don't have to vote, but if you want to you could select 'other' and then clarify.

What I'm searching for is people who behave badly and why they behave badly.

Batgirl, that is an excellent point about the polling options. The reason I want you to choose only one option is because I want your opinion on what was the major factor in their destructive behavior. In your case I imagine you would select severe mental illness, as my impression from your stories is that your stepdad wouldn't have done this had he not developed PTSD from service in the military.

What brought this up is in part due to my interest (obsession?) in human behavior... most notably my interest trauma, abuse, and mental illness. I recently volunteered for a Domestic Offender Re-education program. The program teaches domestic offenders how to relate to their children in healthy ways, in hopes that they can gradually (with initial supervision) resume their parental roles. One of the coordinators expressed the opinion that the reason these people behave that way is because it is how their parents behaved, it is simply all they know. The program then serves to teach them a new way of being for the benefit of their child.

I interpreted this opinion as "Parents abuse their children because they are ignorant and do not know any better." I'm curious to learn about destructive people and why they are destructive, especially about people who know their behavior is harmful.

[cherryblossom]

The man that raped me was a stranger, so I have no idea why he did what he did.

[batgirl]

The reason I want you to choose only one option is because I want your opinion on what was the major factor in their destructive behavior.

Okay thanks for the clarification and explanation Upstream. I vote for the first option in that case, as he we do think he had PTSD and was depressed and so on. Good poll!

[upstream]

It was an accident. The guy that hit me didn't intend to. No one was to blame exactly.

Claire, recognizing that no one was to blame shows a great deal of maturity and intelligence. Kudos.

[Claire]

Thanks Upstream, I voted 'other' as I stated earlier, no-one was to blame. I was in a car crash, I was waiting at a junction and a car hit me from behind.

[ruddy]

I voted criminal behavior but there are other elements. The man who attacked me was trying to force me into prostitution; his own financial gain was the motive. He was drunk and probably high at the time. My sister (a coconspirator) was also drunk and high at the time. A lot of the psychological damage is related to the aftermath. My father (an alcoholic) was for the most part missing in action or just plain didn't give a crap. My mother was residing in the psych ward (unable to help).

Amends? No way. They are all either evil, clueless, or incapable. Some things never change.

[anthony]

I have amended this poll to suit the demographics of this forum. I do not endorse the exclusion of any trauma when asking such a poll. Posts immediately identified that people felt left out, which is not the idea of this forum. So I amended the choices to suit more the overall trauma types changing other to "Nobody Was at Fault" and including "Combat / Military" as a general aspect for those it suits. These act as a placebo for any specific aspects one may be desiring to obtain from such a poll, ensuring accuracy of data without narrowing the results.

I did leave it as a single choice as upstream does ask for the primary factor, not all factors or the major one's.

[reallydown]

Hmm...I guess mine would fit into several categories as well...I guess the "Combat/Military" would be the most accurate. However, "Criminal Behavior" also fits as theoretically they are not supposed to be targettign civilians...and I guess most were strangers too...some of them drunk.

[morgan]

I didn't vote because I've had several different types of trauma and couldn't decide which was the worst.

[upstream]

This thread has grown quite political... seems like we are spending more energy debating the semantics of the question than we are spending answering it.

Perhaps I shouldn't have tried to get to the point by using language of exclusion. I can think of a few threads I've read recently that deal with only one realm of traumatic event or trauma symptom (which I didn't always have). I don't see how this is any different, but I suppose that's my shortcoming.

That being said, I support any changes that are made to this question for the benefit of this forum and its members. Not a big deal to me... if the majority wants to click more than one option, and it sounds like they do, the moderators are free to make the change.

Whatever makes everyone happy...

[batgirl]

I can think of a few threads I've read recently that deal with only one realm of traumatic event or trauma symptom (which I didn't always have). I don't see how this is any different, but I suppose that's my shortcoming.


Upstream, were the threads you read polls though? Polls are a bit different because they are supposed to be representative of everyone with PTSD in at least some respect. I think Anthony said once that this is because physicians come here to view them and use the data in studies and such. So the poll section is often edited in order to be inclusive and therefore a more accurate representation.

[upstream]

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying batgirl. As I said, I support any change made for the benefit of the forum and its members. Works for me.

[anthony]

I will not make radical changes typically to a poll upstream. Your desire for one selection will be respected, as its not overtly hard for someone to identify their most traumatic vs. wanting all events. There has to be a line drawn and I agree with you in that regard. I only added the extra options purely to maintain a placebo effect within a poll. A poll could be like a study if you like, in that if you go searching for a specific answer you will find it, though is it necessarily accurate when you have narrowed results to pre-determine an outcome? So I modify polls to ensure they are spread accurately to obtain a full effect scenario as much as required. Some things are a yes or no, being a closed statement. When you make something an open statement, which means more than a yes or no response, you need to ensure the full coverage is sought. Often a poll can be posted here and it is the members who identify aspects that should be included because we cannot think of everything by ourselves. Yes, not all suggestions warrant changing a poll, some do though. I would not change this poll for multiple choice, as I do not see it warrants it even though some members would like it... has nothing to do with the result obtained, if anything, would taint the result due to the nature of trauma and most ensure trauma in their life. Where would one stop at their choices? It would depend on what each views as traumatic, hence why I agree this poll is just fine the way it is.

Again, I only add or reduce choices depending on the question asked and to ensure a fair and broad outcome to suit the forum demographics.

[dlross]

my mother was definitely the one who most, and most frequently, traumatized me. She has not taken any responsibility for her actions, nor will she ever. I wrote my parents a letter last May, asking as gently as I could, for us to begin a more honest dialogue about matters in the family when I was a kid (actually any dialogue!). There was no letter in return. And my mother has not spoken to me since. I saw my father once last June, and then that was it for him too.
I did not know what a narcissistic personality was, when I was a kid, or even last May. Now that I have been educated about the fact that this is the nature of my mother's problem, I know that there was never any hope that that letter would bring about a positive result. Oh well, live and learn!

[2quilt]

my parents abused us because we were their toys. They saw us as objects like dogs and cats to be owned. I was tortured, kept in the basement, etc. and they never saw anything they did to us as wrong.

[nic]

Hi Upstream,

In my case, my attacker was a "friend," and we were both teens at the time. He raped me several times, and there were rumors that he had (at least tried) to do so with other girls in my school. As far as I know, he had no history of mental illness or anything...just the basic issues that most teens have.

However, I find your question quite interesting, as I have done some research on the question of "why do 'good' people do 'bad' things." I suggest you take a look at research by Christopher Browning. While his research is mainly on Holocaust perpetrators, it does relate to other examples of human behavior. Other research to consider is Daniel Goldhagen--he discusses "hate" as a motivating factor. Also take a look at the Stanford Prison Experiment conducted by Philip Zimbardo as well as the Stanley Milgram shock experiment. (I don't know if I have spelled all their names right; I'm a terrible speller!)

Good luck,
nic

[upstream]

However, I find your question quite interesting, as I have done some research on the question of "why do 'good' people do 'bad' things." I suggest you take a look at research by Christopher Browning. While his research is mainly on Holocaust perpetrators, it does relate to other examples of human behavior. Other research to consider is Daniel Goldhagen--he discusses "hate" as a motivating factor. Also take a look at the Stanford Prison Experiment conducted by Philip Zimbardo as well as the Stanley Milgram shock experiment.

I have purchased and begun "The Lucifer Effect" by Philip Zimbardo, however I had not heard of the other individuals. I'll have to look into their work. Thanks nic!

[goingonhope]

Chose to vote......... So, in narrowing things down to one selection and to the best of my ability, I chose: Criminal Behavior - The persons had sinister and self-serving motives; ....Truthful, without doubt!

There was other life-and-death near experiences, some of which was terrorfying and some of which was not, but these do not include intent, and for the most part, I have either very little and in other instances not once gotten around to discussing any of that.

[bextehude]

I was in the Israeli invasion in Lebanon (2006). So I suppose the Israeli Army traumatized me...

[sweetface]

My father abused me. He did what his father did to him and he thought he was doing the right thing. He knew no better and has not changed. I am around him often since he is elderly now. But if a romantic partner abandons me, it's a huge trigger because that is what my father did to me.

I was raped at 19. He was deranged at the time. He seemed conceited and narccissitic and he was an acquaintance.

[vietnam2nd]

no one was to blame as mine was military realed to vienam. if i wanted i suppose i could blame President Johnson and congress for the gulf of tonken resoulution.

[judyandsus]

My father was the guilty party in my family. All four of us kids have PTSD. I believe my mother did to. My father never in all his 94 yrs admitted his guilt. It was always someone else's fault.

[Beth]

The main person involved did not know how ill (he/she) was, nor did (he/she)think (he/she) was doing anything wrong - this person's actions were very passive aggressive. . .which was incredibly confusing to me as a child and a teenager. I knew something was very wrong - abuse kept happening - and I HATED this person with everything I had until I began to understand the whole picture as an adult. I didn't even understand why I hated this person so much, I only know that I did.

I coined a term: 'by proxy' to catagorize this person's actions. Pedophilia by proxy, incest by proxy, rape by proxy. . . .it fit. Now I know the whole picture. This person still has not taken responsibility for (his/her) actions - I doubt seriously (he/she) ever will.

I grew up with the name 'slut' attached to me in no uncertain terms. Now I know why - sometimes insanity cannot be defined until it's too late.

The people who actually perpetrated the events - yep, they knew what they were doing was wrong. . . I don't know if I would classify them as insane as much as I would classify them as criminal. Absolutely criminal.

The last event was a tragic trauma. . . a death. . .that was hard. . .it still is, and I trigger back to that sometimes. . .but usually see it more as grief.

Beth.

[Bettespaghetti]

The most recent would be my ex hubby who tried to kill me. He had never laid a hand on me until that night, but he sure meant it. I had tried to get him to get help. He had severe mood swings the 6 mos or so prior and I just couldn't handle it. When he kept promising it and his behavior kept getting more and more erratic I got out, but it nearly cost my life. That was almost 6 yrs ago. Though there was only the one physically abusive instance with him, he was emotionally abusive and controlling.

Hope this helps.

Bette

[Mercy]

Sorry,I couldn't pick from your options. My trauma was being sexually exploited as a child from 6 mos. to 12yrs old. I was captive periodically by an organization which provided 'vacations' for people who rented children by the night, the week-end or few weeks. As a small example, we were the entertainment for men when they came in from skiing all day. Most events were catered. We children were delivered in florists vans and catering trucks. I don't think my guests are capable of lasting change.

[void]

Mercy, May the people that did that to you burn in Hell!! If there is no Hell someone should make one and throw them into it.

Peace to you!! :)
Void

[JustJane]

I couldn't vote in the poll because I don't know which of many events is the culprit. So many to choose from and so many were as bad as the were mainly because I wasn't smart enough to know what was going on, that people do bad things, that people would betray a friend and nobody told me what a tornado was or what to do if I found myself in the middle of one. I wasn't allowed to question authority - that meant everyone older than me and everyone was older than me. It wasn't so much that people did bad things to me, but that they were oblivious to how little I knew. They assumed I knew things I had no knowledge of. Want an example? Here's a good one: I asked my mom where babies come from. I was 14 or 15. I had no clue. My mom answered without a pause, "From love." She did not elaborate. I had no reason to question such a direct answer. But then I wondered. And I wondered. I recall telling classmates that i thought I was pregnant. After all, I love my mom and I love my dog and I love my bike... You see where that went. And people always assumed I knew more than I did, that I was much more active than I ever was and that I really had no clue.

[Salu]

It all started with this neighborboy who wanted to play home 8I was around four to six, before school, he was a preteen or a teen, can´t remember) and when you are a husband and wife you do waht adults do at night. I didn´t know what that was so he showed me. I didn´t like it, started crying and my grandmom heard that and sort of saved me I guess.
In town I had another neighborboy who wanted to do what adults do, but with him it was more like playing doctor, although I did felt very suffocated. He was around my age.

(There is some morals in this you know - do not have an intercourse in front of your children - its not good for them)

Second was mental abuse mostly feom home and school. At home there was my father who in my opinion suffers from PTSD himself (his stepfather had a drinking problem and from what I have heard he did not hold back on physical punishment). So the microclimate at home was very very tense, you never knew when he would have an outburst. He completely trashed the place twice. Talked to us when there was something negative to say and he motivated the way you lost the will to do anything at all. Which he didn´t like either. Though he is trying now and has gotten a whole lot better.

Mom has always been soft and quiet nice person, but it dose not help to hear as a child that she has specific order for people and you are not the first in it. Lets say around seven or eight years.

My brother has been sexually interested in me as long as I can remeber and we did some stuff when we were little, but at least in his case I know he would never do anything to me without permission. So I don´t know how rational it is to be uncomfortable about that.

In school I was quiet and tall and had a very dominant "friend". So basically it all adds up to about ten years of constant tension and fear. And after that ended it still left a fear of men and some serious difficulties in communication skills. Which I´m working on.

[stephanie]

I was a victim of a violent crime. Shot in the face by a man on the freeway. He smiled as he did it, so yeah, he was definitely to blame. He was a perfect stranger to me.

I know he'd never make amends. He smiled. Besides, he was never caught for the crime.

[freya]

I wasn't sure what to choose, I chose 'person seemed deranged'.

I'm talking about my father whom I thought for years must have narcissistic personality disorder. Which is a diagnosis that does not allow, if I understood correctly, for any change or improvement.
However my father did change at old age, and a few years ago he was diagnosed with PTSD. He's is MUCH more mild, friendly and understanding these days. I guess that having a severe heart attack had to do with that, maybe made him realize a few things about life and how he wants to live it... Beside that he finally did begin to talk about his trauma.

I think he 'behaved badly' because he was simply not aware that his (very angry) responses to little triggers were not 'normal'. They were normal to him.

I grew up thinking his behavior was normal too, but being unable to deal with it. I was hospitalized with a big breakdown/psychosis at the age of 24. I was diagnosed bipolar after that. It's only recently that my psychiatrist tells me she thinks PTSD is part of the story. So I may have PTSD because my father did. She says his behavior traumatized me.

Freya

[midi]

there's a few...

- mother - tried to drown me as a toddler and changed her mind - escalated from there to chronic verbal and physical abuse - has done nothing wrong, so will never change

- mother's friend/boarder -repeatedly raped me when i was 5 or 6 - my mother approved. he will never change

- a coke dealer my father was friends with - one minor sexual assault when i was almost 8 - a wife beater who doesn't need to change

- creepy old man, friend of my father and approved by my mother - just liked to hug and go for long hug walks - clearly dead by now, so no need for change

- my best friend in high school raped me one night when i was too ****ed up on drugs to even move a finger - i got him back by doing the same while he was on acid - change - yeah - we accepted each other for who we were and always will.

- the guy i call 'biopop' because he's my son's bio, although he doesn't see him or pay child support. this guy repeatedly raped me and when i was out cold, sodomized me until i bled. also beat the living shit out of me often, even at work in front of witnesses, and strangled me several times until he thought i was dead. the priest who counselled us said he was paul bernardo in the making, so NO, there will never be any change.

- manager at work - tried to drag me into the staff room for sex - i fought, sustained injuries, and he plead guilty in court to assault... no need to change, it was my fault for calling the cops.

- coke dealer - mental abuse that coincided with his withdrawals and paranoia. course, i was just as nasty. he did his best.

- suddenly i came to realize after the coke dealer thing went bust that my father, who always put the living fear into us mentally, was a big abuse as well.

- a soldier in my own unit tried to rape me but i fought - he later did admit that it was his own fault, and so we carried on...

- i was a pedestrian who lost against a truck - the driver himself was very traumatized and it was clearly an accident.

- my ex - the only guy i ever felt anything for - mental abuse was so bad that i was on the verge of suicide when i walked away - bipolar - change? yeah, he's capable of it - if he is back on his meds and counseling.

- 5 males attacked my place for 4 hours with the intent to gang rape - while there were holes in the steel door, they miraculously weren't able to knock it down - change? no, i don't blame them, because rape, neglect, beatings - it's all they know...

- me - booze, drugs, sex, annorexia, self-harming, neglect... PTSD - change? one day at a time...