Why Date Someone Who Is Ill?

[batgirl]

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, but I have wondered this for a while so I'm going to ask. I have to wonder why anyone would want to be dating someone who has untreated PTSD or in the early stages of recovery in the first place. I know I wouldn't want to date me (or someone like me), when I was at that stage. I mean I was very ill, I had little to nothing to give to a partner, I didn't know which end was up a lot of the time. I know people do it, but I honestly don't get what's attractive about that. Isn't a relationship supposed to be a give and take? At that point I would not have much to give at all, if anything.

[grace5555]

Evie - exactly one of the main reasons I am not dating now. I have nothing to give but a whole lot of stress to someone. I am being treated and am not in the early stages either, but I recognize that I cannot give a relationship what it deserves. I don't want to lose something very special because I am too ill to maintain it if that makes sense?

[upstream]

Isn't a relationship supposed to be a give and take? At that point I would not have much to give at all, if anything.

Some people have a desire to rescue or fix others through a relationship. My father supposedly fell in love with my Bi-polar mother because he wanted to fix her, as he had always wanted to fix his schizophrenic mother growing up. (some family, huh?)

I fell for someone once because I wanted to rescue her. Take language like this for example:

Oh, poo. I am just a wimp. I collapse into a puddle of shivering loud, snotty rain. Make me some comfort food and a warm blankey and just hold me.

Sorry to hold you up as an example 2quilt, but if an attractive girl said this to me I'd be at her side with a bowl of fudge ice cream and a blanket in a heartbeat... and I'd probably watch her sleep until dawn.

[pandora]

I guess the person with Ptsd has to know as well.....when I dated briefly this summer his exact words were "you are not ready to date"......now looking back I really wasn't ready .

On order to protect myself...I know I still am not and I too have nothing else to give. I wish I would have been more insightful last summer.

[Kathy]

As Upstream mentioned, often there is codependency involved. The partner without PTSD has a strong desire to help, fix, rescue, care for, or even control the PTSD sufferer. It gives them a sense of purpose in life, makes them feel important or needed. Unfortunately, if this is the case and the sufferer does get help for themselves and heals, the relationship inevitably comes to an end, as the non-PTSD partner no longer has someone to help or control. This is why it is so essential for both partners to be in therapy of some sort and heal simultaneously. It cannot be a one way street if the relationship is to survive long term.

This perhaps sounds harsh, however I strongly believe that one attracts, or is attracted to, someone who is rather like themselves, at least as far as mental health is concerned. So, if one is attracted to someone who is very ill, perhaps they have problems and unresolved issues of their own which they need to address. Because truly, if you are a very healthy and happy individual, why would you freely choose to be with someone who is not? It makes no sense.

I would encourage anyone who feels attracted to a very ill person - whether than be an untreated PTSD sufferer, or an abusive person, or an alcoholic/drug addict, etc - to ask themselves very honestly why? Examine your own sense of self-worth and self-respect. Examine why you wish to be with someone who is so ill. Do you feel this is all you deserve, the best you can do? Do you feel a strong need to caretake? Are you repeating a pattern from childhood? Take an honest look at yourself.

It is of course an entirely different matter if your partner develops PTSD after you have been with them for a time, have an established relationship, are married, have children together, and so forth. However I don't believe that is what you are asking about Evie, correct?

[batgirl]

Yeah I didn't mean people who were already married or in a long term relationship, or had known the person before their trauma. I meant people who meet someone while that person already has PTSD that is largely untreated. Why do they want to have a relationship with that person? I mean it's one thing to be a platonic friend, you can be friends with anyone practically, but why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who is so sick that they are not emotionally available to you?

This might sound mean to say too, but one thing I've noticed on here... and again I'm NOT referring to anyone specifically... but I have noticed sometimes, someone will come here and say all they want to do is care for the other person because they love them soooo much, and they don't care that the person is emotionally unavailable or even abusive!! And they talk all eloquently and so on... well to be honest, that makes me want to puke. That person sounds like a martyr in my opinion, like they want other people to think how great they are, because they are "putting up" with the PTSD sufferer. I wouldn't want to be with someone like that. I already have parents thanks. :p And even my parents don't put up with a lot of bullshit from me.

[Damiea]

Also think that sometimes I person can "see" who that person is or could be apart from the PTSD. I don't think that if a relationship starts.. its a thing that comes up in the first conversation and how can anyone know who is suffering from PTSD from causal contact unless happens to see some sort of breakdown related to PTSD. When I person see's something inside another person that they like and are interested in.. finding out about something like PTSD might seem to be worth the try because they have seen that "real" person behind the PTSD first?

Just a thought anyway!

[batgirl]

Oh okay I see what you mean Damiea... but that would be assuming the person with PTSD was willing to work on themselves, right? Because you can't go into a relationship thinking you can change the person yourself, fix them or whatever, just based on what you see could be their potential. I mean the person has to change on their own.

[Damiea]

Yes thats very true.. but when you get emotional.. rational thinking sometimes is pushed aside. As in.. you get to know someone and you find your starting to care for them. For the sufferer.. I'm not sure.. but having someone care for you and see the "you" rather then the PTSD illness can be something you have desired for awhile? As in.. no one wants to be lonely! And as a person getting to know a sufferer they most likely don't know much about the illness I would think.. so don't really think much of it at first. And they might just assume the sufferer is already working on themselves with no understanding truly what is involved?

[Damiea]

Also I think I have read here even of people who are worried about breaking off a relationship because of what it might do to the sufferer especially after they have come to care for that person. The guilt that they are becoming the reason for more stress and trauma to the sufferer can out weigh the need to break it off for there own reasons. No matter how sick the sufferer is or not.. so many things can be over looked because they are "sick" .

[batgirl]

Yeah that makes sense, thanks. I guess I'm thinking about it logically moreso than emotionally. I'm more of a logical person and I forget to consider my emotions or the emotions of others.

[nic]

Well...I guess I would be considered to be in the "early stages," (even though it has been 10 years). I date all the time, even though it is difficult given the extent of my trauma. However, even though some may call me "ill" or "damaged," I am a person...a young woman who wants what many other women (and men) want: love. I, too, wish to have a husband and children in the near future, and I don't want the PTSD or anything else for that matter to take this dream away.

As for why someone would choose to date me...hmm...Well, I don't go into my life's story on the first date...or second for that matter. It's not that I am trying to trick a guy into thinking that I'm 100% normal--after all, everyone has issues--but I want him to see that I am a funny, honest, successful young woman...and then, when I feel it is time, I will slowly tell him about the difficult stuff. While I have had guys get freaked out and/or leave, the good ones tend to stick around :-)

nic

[Damiea]

LOL I think anyone can admit that when in love.. no matter how deeply felt.. your mind tends to turn to mush along with you heart! Most of the times.. this is a good thing. If you over rationalize everything and everyone I think you would miss out on many beautiful things in life. I truly believe it is better to love and lose love.. then to never have experienced love at all.

[blueeyedgirl]

Just as Kathy mentioned, I had to really ask myself why.

I met my (now ex?) boyfriend a couple years ago. We've been on and off, largely bc of untreated ptsd (he just started treatment about 6 mos ago). It surfaced several months after we started dating - after we'd already fell in love. I moved 1000 miles away (bc of plans I'd made before I met him) and that only served to complicate the issue. But, we stayed connected, and I dealt with the on/off because I said that I loved him "sooooo" much.

Well, guess what? Sometimes "love" - or whatever that binding thing is - isn't enough. I told myself that if I really loved him, that I'd do anything. Well, that's just too ridiculous. That's the crap Hollywood feeds us.

In short, I realized my why wasn't good enough. Yes, I care. But, he DOESN'T have anything to give. I've been the one to do pretty much everything...after he initiates a little, of course. And, before I know it, I've been doing all the work. So, I've washed my hands of it. I wish him the best of luck. But, when someone is so dyfunctional that they can't even respond to a text message asking to just message anything, that you just want to know if they're ok... well, that says it all for me. I don't need and/or want a one sided relationsihp anymore.

[batgirl]

LOL I think anyone can admit that when in love.. no matter how deeply felt.. your mind tends to turn to mush along with you heart!

Hmm well I guess my problem is too, I've never been in love, so I probably don't understand that aspect of it at all. And Nic, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry if I've sounded insensitive, I think it's good you're able to date and I don't consider you or myself "damaged". Just I don't get why people would want to date someone who was really ill. I still don't get it really, but I do thank everyone for their answers, it has given me some insight.

[Nicolette]

Anthony and I had a discussion about this topic last night and the following points came up:


When you initially start dating someone you do not see them all the time which gives a PTSD suffer the opportunity to hide the full extent of their illness if they so choose.
Knowing someone has PTSD and then reading about it still doesn't give a person a true understanding of what they are getting themselves into.
People sometimes get confused with 'supporting' and 'fixing'.
Define untreated....there are varying levels of PTSD. What happens if someone has PTSD and doesn't know it at the point when they start dating someone?
Say a suffer starts dating and is fine and finding the situation enjoyable then the relationship takes the next step where the other persons has greater expectations eg. "Can you drop in the shop and get me milk on the way over" and that added stress triggers the PTSD suffer?There is more I would like to discuss as I found this an interesting topic. Unfortunately work calls........:rolleyes:

[anthony]

Just my two cents into this topic... I believe it has something to do with sex + some partners feel they need to "care" for another person and that their "caring" will give them some reward or greater feeling, when in fact they find quite different through experience... emotional abuse instead.

[nyc]

Great thread here. Thanks Bat Girl. It has made me think from many different perspectives, and reframe my thoughts.

2 years ago, I started dating a great guy; I would say the sweetest man I had ever met. After 6 months he was getting slightly apathetic in the relationship and admitted that it was probably connected to the traumatic event which had occurred years earlier. I had wrongly assumed my friend had come to terms with his trauma as much as could be expected. i had not educated myself about PTSD at that time, obviously.

He agreed to go to therapy to work on this for his own sake- but also to help the relationship. Neither of us expected the hell that was to result from this treatment. I guess he was in denial at that stage, and I was just stupid.

I assumed we were in it for the long haul, and did my best to support. But my friend's character changed so drastically that i don't know who he is right now. I don't think he does either. But, I still see beyond his symptoms and coping mechanisms and feel a sense of unconditional love for him- he is still that really wonderful human being even though he is ill.

At the same time, I know that I can't be close with him, because it causes us both too much pain. Because of this, I can't wait for him, but I will always support and care for him.

[Nicolette]

I was just stupid.

I disagree Nyc. How can you be stupid when you were uniformed? neither of us expected the hell which was to result from this treatment. It is not stupid to find out something that hurts you; it is only stupid if you realise you are in a relationship that brings you mainly pain and you stay and complain about it. You made a smart decision by looking after yourself and removing yourself from the hurt while still being friendly and supportive as best as the situation allows. Well done I say!

Sometimes people change and things affect them so that they will never be the same. The person you dated is no longer the person he is now..........it is as simple as that and has nothing to do with stupidity :rolleyes:

[upstream]

As Upstream mentioned, often there is codependency involved. The partner without PTSD has a strong desire to help, fix, rescue, care for, or even control the PTSD sufferer. It gives them a sense of purpose in life, makes them feel important or needed. Unfortunately, if this is the case and the sufferer does get help for themselves and heals, the relationship inevitably comes to an end, as the non-PTSD partner no longer has someone to help or control. This is why it is so essential for both partners to be in therapy of some sort and heal simultaneously. It cannot be a one way street if the relationship is to survive long term.


It is far more likely that a co-dependent person will leave their partner because they are emotionally drained than because their partner healed. This was the case in every co-dependant relationship I have ever witnessed or heard of. Two reasons...

1) often times the sufferer (whether it's someone who has PTSD, an abuser, an alcoholic, etc, etc) is enabled by the co-dependent person and has no reason to get better
2) just because someone heals doesn't mean you don't love them any more

Also I don't agree with it being about a sense of purpose or feeling needed. Regardless of what unresolved issue caused the initial attraction, a co-dependent person in a long term relationship will likely tell you that they are in love and care deeply for the other person.

And as many have pointed out, you have no idea that someone is ill when you are first getting to know them. I don't know of any co-dependent person that goes searching for an abuser.

[Kathy]

Perhaps I should have said "codependent features" rather than full blown codependency, I apologize. However, I do maintain my position as I had many clients over the years who fit the description I gave above.

[upstream]

someone will come here and say all they want to do is care for the other person because they love them soooo much, and they don't care that the person is emotionally unavailable or even abusive!!

Phil can probably say this better than I can:

"Love will make you blind, make you act so strange
But I'm here, and here I will stay.
...
Try as I may I can't stop thinking about you
It seems my life's worth nothing without you"

~Phil Collins, Everyday

I agree with the man... love will make you blind, make you act so strange.

[upstream]

Perhaps I should have said "codependent features" rather than full blown codependency, I apologize. However, I do maintain my position as I had many clients over the years who fit the description I gave above.

Please explain the difference between the two? I'm not clear on this.

It's just that speaking with individuals in failed co-dependent marriages... it sounds more like a tragic love gone wrong. Your original post made it sound more like a volunteer opportunity or a coast guard mission, which is what I took offense to. There are types of co-dependent relationships I haven't been exposed to, which is what you may have been referring to.

[Kathy]

Your original post made it sound more like a volunteer opportunity or a coast guard mission, which is what I took offense to.

May I ask why you were offended? Were you in such a relationship yourself? I certainly meant no offense to anyone, simply giving my opinion based on my professional experience. Codependent features are on a spectrum just as any other disorder, not everyone in such a relationship is going to behave identically or for the same reasons. Some do have the best of intentions and truly feel they are in love. However, others definitely seek out partners to control for their own satisfaction, under the guise of being helpful and/or loving. In my experience I have seen both. And more often than not, once someone recovers from this helping behaviour, they admit to being far more controlling than they originally realized.

[Frankie]

Very good points Kathy, and Batgirl I do understand what you are saying and why you are wondering why someone would want to get involved !

When I met my bf he was in therapy for 2 years already, and was at the point in his life where he was able to control his PTSD very well. He had gone through anger management, and he really was making the efforts to help himself.

Had I met him earlier on, who knows, I might not have been able to handle his problems and I wouldn't have gotten involved, cause I wouldn't have been able to see the "good" side of him.

When I met him, I didn't know right away that he had PTSD, but there was a chemistry between us that was very real and I wanted to keep on getting to know him. When he finally told me about his disorder, I didn't run away in fear, I stayed because by then I was falling in love with him. And I saw beyond it, I saw the caring and giving and funny man he was and I knew I could handle anything that came our way ! (I thought that way and I still do).

Also, I never saw the awful side of this disorder...well, not at the beginning ! To be quite honest, I didn't know much about it, I even thought that it could be cured completely !I even remember my friend being worried about what I was getting into. Right from the moment he told me about it, I started to do some research, wanting to learn about his disorder and then I found this site ! All these things have helped me a lot.

Right from the beginning he was able to give me what I needed in life. He has a lot to give.

I don't mean to say that it will always be like it is now...I know that there will be times that it will get the better of him, but loving him like I do, I am there for him for the duration. As I know he would be if something should happen to me.

And at the beginning, I thought that with my patience and caring I would help him get rid of it !.....Wow, was I naive and uneducated lol...I now know and realize that it will always be there, and no matter how much I love and how patient and understanding I am...it will always be there and ultimately he is the one that has to deal with it...I can only be there and support him.

I don't accept everything he does and he knows it. I am not there to "baby" him, nor do I treat him any differently then if he didn't have this disorder. Like in all relationships, there are things we accept and tolerate and there are things we don't.

I don't try to "fix" him, I have to deal with it because I want to deal with it. It is a personal choice that I made. We have managed to build a sound, healthy and loving relationship, with all its ups and downs !!!

[Nicolette]

Well said Frankie. I feel my position is similar to you and I do appreciate what you are saying.

[Andre]

Lots of elaborate discussion I can't quite understand here, but I'll give my opinion if you don't mind Evie. Many points of it have been said with more detail but maybe not so directly. A person doesn't stop being a person simply because of PTSD, though it can be quite convincing when you're very low. For romance a lot of it does go to physical and/or mental attraction. Even at the most extreme PTSD doesn't simply dictate what develops. You kind of conditioned your question to get the one kind of response about codependency, but its greater than that. I'll call it the appearance of a person, but meaning the total appearance and not just the surface-how that person behaves, what they like, etc. Everything that comes out while dating and that makes them unique. Everyone meets on that level, and starts a relationships on the basis of whether they like the appearance of the other. I can't even get close to qualifying this for all the possible deceptions that exist but it is the essential point.

After that is where PTSD can effect things since it alters that appearance and it goes to the tolerance of the other whether they can accept the change or not. Its more than just the give and take of affection (You were talking about that right?). Again, lots of things I don't really know about can qualify that in disorders, but those are exceptions not the general rule. And the sufferer has certain duties to keep things in check and prevent violent and intimidating behavior. Even in isolation from PTSD those behaviors cause major problems in relationships. Good behavior is required from both to make it work and if either don't do that then it fails, it must fail at that point. What I'm trying to say is to go back to your question of what the appeal could be to make a person date a sufferer, I think it would be decided based on those total appearances and whether it works or not decided by the limits of proper tolerance for change. Better word to use but I can't think of it now.

[Sairadance]

In response to your question, "why date someone who is ill"? Well, I guess my answer is pretty straight forward. I fell in love with a fabulous man first. Even though he was diagnosed 2 years before I met him, I fell in love with the man. He just happens to have a serious illness. I am not in denial nor do I believe I can fix him. I could only hope that if I ever had such an illness, that someone would see the person I am and all my good qualities. None of us are perfect and we all have issues fo sure, some more complex than others. With some patience and persistance, I hope to journey with him and I know for sure that I am learning so many things about myself along the way. I do understand how some people may not be ready for such a journey, it is very bumpy and very difficult. However, the rewards are incredible, just like the man I fell in love with...ilness and all.
Thank you for your post, it gave me much to think about.

[Nicolette]

Great explanation Sairadance. There is a lot of what you say which I agree with.

Good luck and may your journey have the least amounts of bumps possible!

[anthony]

A person doesn't stop being a person simply because of PTSD, though it can be quite convincing when you're very low.
That jumped out at me Andre.... well said.

[Kathy]

Yes that was a very good point Andre, very insightful. Evie is very ill right now and I believe her question was somewhat self-motivated. From discussion with her a couple of days back, the question is not so much why date anyone with PTSD, but moreso why date someone who is very ill or in crisis. I believe that was what she meant. She was thinking about someone like herself, who is almost incapacitated whilst ill, not someone who is able to "disguise" the PTSD for a time when first meeting, or able to function quite normally in their day to day living. At least that is what I am suspecting, she may correct me if I am wrong.

In any event, I have very much enjoyed everything that has been shared in this thread. It has given me insight as well, as I am not a spouse of someone with PTSD.

[upstream]

May I ask why you were offended? Were you in such a relationship yourself? I certainly meant no offense to anyone, simply giving my opinion based on my professional experience.

I was mostly thinking of my parents and grandparents, though I suppose it's possible that on some level I was thinking of myself as well. My issues, not yours... and I realize you meant no offense. I guess my post was more of a knee jerk reaction than anything else.

In my history and my parents history... behind all the dysfunction and illness and mental health terminology... there is a family and good memories and something real. I had a bad reaction to the idea that there might not be, it struck a nerve.

[Kathy]

Well I do sincerely apologize if it offended you Upstream, I honestly was only speaking in a very general way, not specific to anyone's situation here. Of course every family has their good and bad points, not everything is bad. It is good to read you are able to see the good in your family, that is very positive.

[upstream]

Apology not necessary... again my issues not yours. You have had different experiences than I have, and spoke to those.

[blueeyedgirl]

This thread has really hit home with me. I've been processing it over the past several days because perhaps this is my issue...that maybe I need to 'fix' someone.

Mental illness is something I'm very familiar with - father attempted suicide when I was 15, and was hospitalized again last year - so I'm drawn in by people with issues because I can identify with them. But, it's not so much because I have that desire to 'fix'... it's because I get it. I get the internal hell that a person can go thru. And, to me, it feels more human to know and express that with someone who has been there, too.

But, again - maybe that *is* an issue. Because, while I've been there, he IS there.

[upstream]

Kathy used words other than 'fix'

a strong desire to help, fix, rescue, care for, or even control the PTSD sufferer

Is one of these words a better fit for what you feel?

[blueeyedgirl]

Unfortunately, yes.

I hate how it sounds, but I do have the desire to care for and help. But, what's the difference between that and wanting to be a mother? Not that I'd want to be a mother to my s/o - obviously those are two very different roles. I guess what I'm saying is that I've been in some pretty dark places and can relate. And, to be honest - I don't know if I could be with someone who hasn't been in those places. Not that I want to spend my life giving all the support and not getting it back, either. But, there is something human and real about having experienced the depth of both happiness and pain.

[upstream]

I know exactly what you mean. I have those desires too, and I also don't believe that it is wrong to want to help and care for others. It is comforting to be with someone who has been in dark places too, someone who won't leave me because they see the dark inside me. Problem is I keep getting burned.

I used to be afraid of getting close to healthy people, afraid that they'd get close enough to see me for who I am. Afraid that they'd see that I'm not acceptable or lovable, that they'd run away.

I've been working on some issues lately, and REBT (also called CBT) has helped a lot with this. I feel more normal, and I feel like I can be in a relationship with a normal healthy person... though I still feel a desire to rescue people sometimes.

[pastrychefarmywife]

wow, i am glad i read this thread . although i married my hubby before his PTSD, this thread has helped me see what he 'could' be feeling. thank you all for opening up!

[tarahc]

This was a very interesting thread for me to read. At first I was offended by the posts that made me feel like I have given my best to a relationship that has been very difficult at times and has pushed me to the limits of my patience simply for my own personal gain. As if the difficulties have been of my own making and I needed them in some way to fulfill holes that I have in myself.

I do consider myself as a person who is a caretaker in many senses of the word. I am an oldest sibling and played a big role in caring for my younger siblings, and I actually have a master's in counseling that trained me to be a therapist. This has been a blessing in many ways, especially because I had some knowlegde of PTSD before meeting my boyfriend. We were talking yesterday and he told me that he thinks if I wasn't the person I am with the background that I have, he thinks that I would have been out of our relationship months ago (we've been dating for 11 months).

That being said, it's really made me think about why I'm in my relationship and why I'm willing to be a carer. I'm so grateful that my boyfriend is in therapy and that he is willing to work on his treatment and try to get better, and the more I read this forum, the more I think that I may need to consider engaging in my own therapy.

It's so nice to be able to read all the things that you all contribute to this forum and have a place where I know other people understand.

[Kathy]

Welcome to the forum, Tara, lovely to have you. It sounds as though you have quite a good relationship with your boyfriend, which is refreshing to see. Take care and I look forward to chatting with you more.

[FallenAngel]

Hmm interesting thread.... Not every one knows the person they are dating has PTSD , not in the beginning anyway , I certainly didn't , I fell in love with the way he made me laugh and his sexy smile , ok now I know , Opps to late! I already fell in love with him! Had I know from the very beginning I may never have gone there , but that is imaterial, I did go there ......... and we are going though some bad times pulled back , cutting me out , shut down ! But I care deeply enough to stick around , see where this goes , that is my choice, but I know thats not right for everyone, being with some one is your choice some choose to stay some choose to go, We may never get back to where we were ........ but thats a chance I have to take and I have accepted that, maybe it will make us stronger or maybe we will end up as just friends. But one thing I do know unless he says he dont want me around I will always be there, what I feel now is unconditional I dont expect anything back at this moment in time ..........

[samsara]

I know in my case, my lover (sufferer) has taught me so much and if it were not for him, I don’t think I would have succeeded as much in life as I have for having met him. Don’t get me wrong, it’s been tough but I worked out a way of turning the anger into positives and the fear into strength. That should be the case with all aspects of life. Face it head on, get from it what you can, the moon will continue to rise and the sun will continue to shine.

“Even after ALL this time, the Sun never says to the Earth – ‘You owe me!’

With LOVE like that, you can light up the WHOLE sky!”

All in all though, he’s never raised his voice at me and never lifted a finger toward me. The toughest times have been the shut outs – though they are less and less. And the more beautiful times? When I realised that I had no control over falling in love with him, that we have a connection that borders on mental telepathy. And moreover, when I realised that I could open my heart, and still have energy for myself, protect myself not with a shield, but with understanding. I’m a tough bitch one might say, but with a heart of gold for the taking if you deserve it, that’s how I protect myself – I save on emotional fuel.



I have never been given this feeling of understanding that my lover gives me. I don’t have to say anything and he thinks it or vice versa. Every case is different, but I feel like my life is 100 times better for having known him. He’s sweet, and calm and beautiful. He’s had a shit childhood and decided a long time ago that he was a fighter. I challenge him to challenge himself. I can do that because he actually trusts me 100%. It took three years of separation to get there – Two of those with no contact. Yeah we’ve been through our ups and downs, and we’ll have more. But you know what, so does every relationship. Life is hard, you have to work at it to make it better. It’s deal or no deal, and I’m surprised that more people don’t wise up to that.

It depends were you are at. From my experience, I don’t agree that a lot of people are attracted to ill people, I really don’t. Our relationship started just as Andre suggested. We had the hots for each other, couldn’t get enough of each other, shit hit the fan, the rest is history. But that shit had everything to do with me as it did with him. And for the most part, though I would never really know, it had very little to do with the PTSD. What I’m saying is, relationships take two, both are responsible for playing their part, both are responsible for making them work, and communication is key.

[spiritofnow]

I guess this subject is subjective as most of life is, it's all down to that one individuals perception and the experiences that have lead them there.

I feel very strongly about this!.......

What if something special came along before you realised that you needed to fix yourself? What if something beautiful comes along while you are fixing? Do you reject the experience because you fear messing it up? No way, embracing it is part of the challenge to fixing yourself! Rejecting what could be good for you is what we always do!

Life is not perfect as we are all more than aware of - you can't always control, when, how, and with whom. As long as the prospect of sharing with someone is not potentially hurtful to others' then I believe we are just as worthy. Just as Samsara suggessted.

However, I do realise that depending on what part of your journey you are on can dictate how you feel, I feel it is vital to remember that there are NEVER any promises in life except those we make to ourselves. Promise to learn to learn to love yourself and embrace the things in life that challenge you!

Remember that each of 'us' is more than a PTSD label; funny, intelligent, insightful, kind, quiet, creative, beautiful, a good friend, empathetic, caring, loving, energetic, considerate, loyal, trustworth etc etc.........Why deny these parts of you that deserve to be loved or that can be bestowed onto another human being?

So, we should not deny that which we deserve (this is the hardest part)

Spirit x

[spiritofnow]

Oppps,

Remember that each of 'us' is more than a PTSD label. PTSD is one aspect of 'us' ( I do understand that it can be all consuming, but I think that this is imporatnt to remember). PTSD does not define you , it is not the whole of you. I am Vicky (AKA Spiritofnow), Mum, friend, student, sister, grand-daughter, survivor and fighter. How about these people; funny, intelligent, insightful, strong, kind, creative, beautiful, good friend, empathetic, caring, loving, energetic, considerate, loyal, trustworthy etc etc. Don't all of these parts deserve to be loved and to love back the best they can?

Spirit x

[upstream]

Not every one knows the person they are dating has PTSD , not in the beginning anyway , I certainly didn't

If you don't mind sharing, may I ask how you reacted to the news? Were you upset that he wasn't upfront with this?

[Nicolette]

Your point of view is very true Vicky.... you are more than a PTSD label. Each of us has unique and beautiful characteristics. Well said.

Upstream, I would like to say to you that Anthony told me about his PTSD fairly soon after I started dating him. At the time I did not think much of it nor did I rush out to find out what it really entailed as he seemed 'pretty normal'. It was not until there was a lot of stress in our relationship that PTSD reared its head and I got a taste of what it was all about....not much fun :rolleyes:.

Knowing what I know now, would I go back and change things if I could, well, I fell in love and that makes it different. If I wasn't with Anthony and knew what I now know about PTSD would I make a different decision at the start....I don't know other than knowing I would want to know a lot more about what stage of PTSD the sufferer was at eg...full blown untreated, treated, mild etc.

[FallenAngel]

Suppose i should explain, briefly, he was moody from the day we met ( but admitted it lol ) , didn't sleep much , nighmares, easily aggitated by other people ( not me ) ect , but he admitted he had those, anyway a few months ago he started to get violent headaches which led to visits to the Doc, folllowing tests the Doc said he thought the headaches were a symptom of depression, my fella laughs and says he has nothing to be depressed about but admitted he did get low sometimes.......... futher tests and a councilor , he tells me they have diganosed him with PTSD , although he openly told me thats really all that was said. If i'm honest I dont know if this was a first diagnosis or a way of him telling me......... but when we first met he was very open and honest about other things so I dont really have any cause to doubt this is also the first he knew of it. So to finally answer your question I was not hurt or upset and neither would I be if he had know all along , just glad he trusted me enough to tell me.....

We have limited contact at the moment , he has shut me down , feels numb and has no feelings for anyone , in a dark place he say's, I have read on here about uncontrolled PTSD and the affects during early treatment , but maybe my questions on that should be in another post.

All I know is I will support as much as I can or should I say as much as he will let me...... But it is hard when i dont know that much about PTSD or what his bounderies are, I suppose only time will tell on that one

[upstream]

Thanks for the feedback, it's appreciated.

[ladybug08]

A very good topic! I am not in a relationship at the moment, but I am wondering would someone with PTSD would tell the person off the bat if starting a new friendship that could develop into a relationship. When a friendship is new, all of us are at our best. Then there comes a stressor, and PTSD rears its head...what now? :rolleyes:

[Nicolette]

When a friendship is new, all of us are at our best. Then there comes a stressor, and PTSD rears its head...what now? :rolleyes:

Very good point ladybug and more importantly, very good question...what now? This has actually also been discussed in the thread http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread6984.html if you are interested.

[ladybug08]

Thanks Nicolette :smile:

[sisu]

Okay, along these same lines.....

I am thinking my ex not only has ptsd, but is going thru a mid-life crisis. (what a combo?!) Anyway, he has not only pushed me away....but has had this revelation that he only wants to date a woman 1 or 2 times then move on to the next....like a "lone wolf". He WAS NOT this type of man when I met him...not even close. We were together for 8 months and this behavior never came up.

Now he says....I do not want any commitments. He likes the rambling man lifestyle. I told him...have at it. That is not something I can stand by and watch. I have moved on.

But, I guess my question would be....do you think that it is a mid-life crisis with ptsd or is this behavior typical of ptsd itself?

Still learning.
Sisu

[Wishmaster]

When Lucky and I started dating, I didn't know that she had PTSD. Even after a while, it was hard to put our fingers on it. She has recently started down the road of getting help, and I know that things may get worse before they get better, but she also knows that I will be here for her all the way. Even if I knew back then what the future held for us, I wouldn't change my decision to be with her in the least.

[unbroken]

Yes, Wishmaster, you and I are in similar situations. I simply fell in love with my girlfriend and though it's sometimes tough to handle, I always see her heart - my light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for sharing, I hope I can learn from you and others here.

[Auburngirl]

This thread piqued my interest immediately! On the one hand I've also noticed a number of threads where people seemed to be getting into relationships with people who were really unwell and hardly able to care for themselves and it did seem like the "healthy" party wanted to be in the role of someone caring for someone dependent.

On the other, here I am a person with CPTSD dating. I didn't know I had PTSD when we started dating, and things within the relationship triggered it in a way (though looking back it was clear something was wrong before that).

As the "ill" party I've been really conscious of not wanting to get into a relationship where it's him looking after me -hence part of the reason I dislike the 'carer' and 'sufferer terminology.' That's not how I want us to relate, so while I do confide in him I have other sources of support outside of the relationship and am in treatment and try not to let this overwhelm our relationship or who I am within it.

As for him, I hope he was attracted to me because of who I am, that I have redeeming and interesting qualities beyong my health issues and that that's why he has stuck around. He insists this is the case.

For me a key distinction is this: his job is not to look after me or make me better, that's my job, and I want to be able to claim both credit and responsibility for my own recovery. He isn't there to "save" me, and I don't think it would be healthy if he were. He supports me, certainly, but I have to save myself. And I am doing everything I can do so - ie therapy, healthy life style changes, etc.

[2quilt]

I have PTSD...it does not have me.

PTSD does not define who I am as a whole person. I am a complex woman who loves to cook a different recipe every day, who loves to quilt although I am not good at it yet, who loves my cats as if they were my children, who speaks Spanish, and who loves to hunt for treasures in thrift stores. Oh, and I also have a laundry list of physical problems and PTSD with depression. PTSD is just one facet of me.

Why date me? I am fun.

I have yet to meet another human who has gotten through life completely perfectly healthy in every way. Everyone is imperfect. Just depends on your perspective.

[unbroken]

Auburngirl-
I think you've got it right, I relate this (on a smaller scale) to someone who wants to quit smoking. I've dated smokers before even though I've never smoked and don't care for it. They always say they want to quit, and I'll be there for her, but if she's quitting for me then she's quitting for the wrong reason, and if I'm only in the relationship because I want to help her quit, then I'm in it for the wrong reason. They have to want to quit for themselves, whether I'm around or not.

This is not to say that someone with PTSD has to "cure" themselves, but the reference is that they have to want to heal for themself, and not for thier partner's sake. Likewise, if someone is going get into a relationship to be a carer in the first place then I think that's a bad idea (JMHO).

With my girlfriend, I met her through a personal ad that she answered. She had many traits that I was looking for in a woman, and when we met we hit it off right away. I fell in love with her not knowing about PTSD, and thought her issues were because of something else (that was understandable as well). But I was already hooked and fell for who she is on the inside and for what she wants from a relationship (didn't hurt that she's a hottie, either!).

She told me that she has these issues and gave me the ultimatum of being with her and putting up with it, or realizing that it may be too much to deal with. I stayed, not because I want to care for her, but because I do care for her. Additionally, the qualities I find in her with regards to a relationship are qualities I don't know if I'll find again...I've been single for a long time looking for someone like her, and I only see her PTSD as a challenge, not an obstacle. I hope that makes sense.

I do hope that at some point she does share more with me, and I think she's on the right track as she has opened up to me quite a bit. I feel the distinction here is just as it is in any 'normal' relationship: you have to want to take care of the person because you love them...not because you think they need it. And that goes both ways, being a carer is not the same as being a caretaker, I think there's a big difference between the two. But that's just me thinking out loud....

[Auburngirl]

unbroken- I agree. There are so many different meanings to "care" in a healthy relationship both care for each other, but not in the sense of being a caregiver ideally (I realise in some cases this may be necessary).

I don't feel it's my responsibility to "cure myself" but it is to get myself better - ie to seek the resources, do the most I can, and ask for what I need. This isn't easy, and I've got a ways to go.

[neverforget]

I fell in love with my ex and started a relationship because he has awesome human qualities and we have lots of things to share ; both like to travel, have same taste in music so we would go to concerts together...I felt so good with him.
I found him really attractive physically and when I think about it, he was the man I've always dreamed to be with.

When we started dating I had no clue about his issues.

For the first time I felt like building something with someone, I was thinking about the future with him.

It took him a few months to tell me about the traumatic experience he went through, and still he didn't say much.Just a few words here and there. Like a puzzle.

I felt he was still suffering from it but I didn't realise how much at that time.
I learned he had a story of substance abuse too, which was hard to believe as he has such a healthy lifestyle now ( diet, regular exercise...)

Knowing that didn't change anything for me. I just loved him.

[unbroken]

I spent some time with my girlfriend yesterday, and she said that I help her to relax. She also does the same for me, so we both enjoy our time together, no matter what we're doing. So last night she called and we talked about things and her recent bouts, and she said she didn't know why I wanted to be with her and all her problems, but she was glad that I stood by her and supported her. I told her that as I learn more about her and PTSD it helps me to understand her, and she told me that she is beginning to understand me as well, and can appreciate my own idiosyncrasies.

Her thought provoked me, though, to think about what my past relationships were like with women who didn't have PTSD. In the past, women I've dated have lied to me about where they were or who they were with, cheated on me, one of them stole money from me and yet another was very nice and loyal but it was obvious that she couldn't be alone as she wanted to go everywhere with me, giving me no time to myself. Another was such a control freak that I felt like I was losing my identity. All of these things were done to me, and some of them offended me.

My current girlfriend has PTSD, and that's because of things that were done to her. She's loyal to me, she loves me, she wants to be with me and we're both looking forward to a future together...we've always wanted what we have found in each other. I trust her fully and I know she's not a cheater, so I don't have the insecurities I've had with other women I've dated. She's not hung up on money or material possessions, and quite often when we go out she offers to pay...something I rarely saw with other so-called "normal" women that I've dated.

I fell in love with her for who she is on the inside, and for how she makes me feel about myself. So she has PTSD ... I'll take that over controlling, lying, cheating and stealing anyday. :)

[becvan]

You know... I can see why she values you so much. Your just a sweet heart!

Just had to say that. :)

bec

[unbroken]

aww...thank you Bec. I know that I do have my moments where I'm less than a sweetheart, but I really do care about her so I try. She thrills me....definitely!

[Tammy]

This si a very interesting thread indeed! I have just sat here and really thought about why I did start dating Alex...
I found Alex had PTSD about 3 weeks before we got together, and I had no idea what that meant and I didn't really care. I fell for Alex because we both loved to laugh. I was going through a hard time being pregnant and just about to leave a relationship with my baby's dad, and Alex helped me so much during that time. Also, I was still grieving for my Nana and Alex was the only person I felt comfortable enough around to talk about it and cry about it. Alex and I connected on such a level that it didn't matter where we were or what we were doing or who we were with, it seemed it was just us.
Alex was so much fun when we first met. We used to go the pub and play pool for hours, and he introduced me to other people my age who were expecting babies, or had babies, some single Mums some not.
We had only been together for a few months when Alex had to go to the PTSD course and they invited me to come along. That's when I learned a lot more about PTSD and the nightmare it was. Speaking to other partners I thought I was mad for being with him because their stories terrified me! I was actually ready to walk away from the whole lot. But then I realised that every relationship had bad parts and if these couples could stay together through it all that Alex and I could make it work...
After Jackson was born I suffered from Post Natal Depression, and it was Alex who noticed the warning signs and told me I needed help- of course I didnt listen at the time; but eventually after he told my Mum his concerns, I sought the help I needed. I believe that had it not been for Alex I would have never have gotten the help I needed and in all honesty would probably be dead right now.
Alex has helped me just as much as I have helped him. We are always there for each other and we respect each others alone time when we need it, and when we are together and te boys are both asleep it is almost like we are the only two in the world again. I know it sounds really sappy, but I owe a lot more to Alex than he does to me. And most days, he is still that same person I fell in love with knowing he had PTSD- we deal with the bad days together; and it is weird actually, with me still having depression and Alex's PTSD, we never have a bad day at the same time! It really is like we equal each other out.