Trust With Your Therapist - Or Not?

[Grama-Herc]

I keep seeing a common thought throughout this forum that, to be quite honest, has me very confused.

I am speaking about people who say things like "I am not comfortable telling my T. about that." "I have not told my T about this". Thinking like this confuses me beyond explanation.

Your T. is there to help you. They are there to guide you through the mine field of your mind. This person is willing to sit with you, listen to you, try to help you sort out the confusion of your emotions and you won't tell them everything.? ? ?

If you do not feel that you can tell your T. absolutely every deep dark secret buried in your soul, then quite frankly, you are seeing the wrong person.

If you don't tell your T. everything, you are asking them to fix a problem they do not know exists. How can your T. help you if they don't Have All The Facts?

Why do you think the T. asks all those questions you refuse to answer? Could it be because they are trying to get to the root ofyour problem and you refuse to talk about? ? ? ? .

Think of it this way. You have the most painful pain in your gut you have ever had. It is so bad you need to go to the E.R.(emergency room). When the doctor asks you what is wrong, you tell him yourleft arm hurts.

So he sends you to the xray department for an xray of your arm,tells you he sees nothing wrong and sends you home telling you ifit gets worse to come back.

You continue to hurt, you stomach pain gets worse! Even if you go back to the same doctor and tell him the pain is worse-OR-go to a new doctor and tell this one the same thing-----you are never going to get better.

You have given the doctor false leads to you pain.

How in the hell can a T. help you if you do not at least attempt to participate in your healing process honestly?

This lack of trust or disclosure stuns my mind. Once it was determined that I needed intense therapy I let it all out. I spilled my guts of every thing I could think of that ever hurt me or caused me any discomfort.

I'm not saying it is easy. It isn't! It is painful and time consuming and no one likes the process. But hiding some ofl the pain and hurt makes absolutely no sense. Why even bother with therapy under these restricted circumstances?

So maybe one of you in the forum can explain this to me! Because I do not understand the thought process behind this.

[TLight]

Good points Herc.

I think people are fighting with their own shame and tons of FEAR. The mind has a way of blocking our own progress. Sometimes people are just not ready.

But I agree, they need to expose themselves as completely as they can, or else it's just a waste of money.

Trust takes a long time to build for a lot of us.

[Cecilia]

Yes, trust in your therapist takes time. In order to share your darkest secrets a "bond" must be formed. When I was in therapy the first time, I formed a bond with my psychiatrist much quicker than I did with my therapist and I had spent a lot more time with the therapist.

Eventually, I switched therapists. It is important to feel comfortable and feel connected, it takes time and sometimes it just takes a person with a different personality.

[tude]

Ahhh, I don't even know how to begin to answer this one...

First of all, trust is earned. Just because someone has a degree and presents a non-judgemental, non-reactive, empathetic, unconditional positive regard, attentive listening therapist persona, doesn't mean I am going to just let my guard down. It isn't even a conscious thing. It's a long-standing, protective wall that lies in the shadows of my personality.

That being said, becoming aware of how I still do protect myself by not being emotionally honest, I am responsible. Slowly, I am chipping away at that wall which impedes my progress.

Grama-H, I have to be honest with you...people who are the exact opposite not only confuse me but scare me! ;)

I hope this helps,
tude

[nor]

Unfortunately, I'm taking this thread too much to heart. It reminds me of what I was incessently taught as I grew up. I, too, am slowly chipping away at the wall.

My father's big philosophy for everything, has always been "Shit or get off the pot". And I kind of hear that here.

I have discussed my father's (and basically the rest of my family's) opinion with my T as well.

But he reassured me that some disclosure of memories and feelings takes a lot of time to surface. I would love to think that if I spilled my guts totally out, that my PTSD would alleviate itself. But that isn't going to happen. I did have another therapist who thought that I should just "move on", now that "everything" is out in the open. I didn't realize, at that point, that not everything WAS out in the open. I just knew that I didn't feel better.

I too seemed to connect better with the psychiatrist than the T I had for several years, and I too, made the change. I do believe that it was for the better, as there are a lot of issues which creep into our discussions. He is gentler and much more patient.

I experienced with my trauma, tremendous shame and guilt. And I still bring a lot of that same embarrassement to my therapy sessions. I honestly try to start out the sessions, by "getting straight to the point", but then I shy away from talking about some things. I am obviously still in denial about certain things, and to say it out loud, would make it true in some way.

I know everyone's therapy is different. Hopefully, the T you are dealing with will know when to push, and when to back off.

As it has taken a few years....I carefully say, that I continue to learn to trust mine.

[goingonhope]

I once had a therapist that took the proper approach and time to allow me to build trust of him. And, after that trust was built, and with his professionalism and talent he went at it and I was allowed to discuss, feel and process huge chunks of trauma with all it's wonderful emotions (sarcasm). I would love to still be working with him today. He was highly effective and I was most cooperative.

The only two issues that arose were these: First, the expanse of trauma for me to share, feel, discuss and process was of such variety and plentiful that I never did have the opportunity to share or deal with so much of it, before he was forced to retire early.

Secondly, why was he forced to retire early? Most specifically, I do believe it was because he was non-traditional in the sense of providing meaningful and applicable mental health service that would prove most fruitful and rather then keep you coming back and paying more monies for MH serv.'s rendered, his intent was to confront and help truly heal the suffer at their core. He was most effective at reaching and encouraging my healing at the emotional part of my being and at a cellular level, and a lot of this helped correct and greatly improve much at cognitive level.

In Anthony's words: He did not bring me around, over, under or I'll add, or try and catapult me over the enormous grief, pain and trauma. Indeed he held my hand and walked me right through so much.

I once knew other clients of his and they too were so empowered. He taught to, and one thing he taught was how to empower oneself, that they might not need to spend the rest of their lives receiving services from the mental health industry, regardless of PTSD or not.

So my point cheifly so far is a therapist needs to be mentally sound themselves, trained and qualified. Their life energy, experience and even a heart and some compassion does wonders.

Therapists all need to know that on any day, roles could be reversed and it could be them sitting across from perhaps another professional, or even perhaps across from many of us and in need of some counseling and services.

IMHO, degree's and certification don't cut it and necessarily qualify one for providing good therapy.

Since that therapist, I found and discontinued others after not that long of time. I gave them a honest chance. I wasn't expecting or demanding the same expertise of P.B., they just didn't tackle and know much, and that's being kind. Not all therapist, psycholog.'s, ect. are like this. But unfortunately far to many are.

So intuitively would I tell a therapist everything, just because they collect on my visits. No! Absolutely, not. Not unless I know in my gut and from experience, they're indeed qualified and I can witness signs of life, character and/or heart, outside their programming and the clock.

Wow! I guess this really reached inside and got to me, or else my post would be shorter.:rolleyes: I do apologize.

---------

Herc, I'd count your fortune, to have a good, trusting, helpful, useful therapist available to you. It seems, you're one lucky gal in this, not all of us are.

Now I know there are other angles and scenario's to this as well. I'm just offering out what I'm familiar with. Because, for myself never would I ever refuse real therapy and help within my limitations.

Take Care Herc!

[goingonhope]

Oh' ya' BTW, Herc. Yes, I agree too, this is a very good question. I guess a lot of people like it as well, bc before I got mine posted others had more quickly posted. Where did they come from? (smiling) and :thumbs-up

Hope

[rt1967]

Grama i like your upfrontness and openess i don't know what it is i not telling i i wonder how i can access that .i try answer questions best i can or feedback off others i got given some questionnaires today by psychologist first appointment she says i have language and reading problms need feedback off people around in day to day life to help .I started anger counselling 2 weeks ago my friend suggest it others including my aswsay i don't know how that work you arent even really aware of body and you spontaneous and memory problems any good tips Grama?

[jailed]

it's all a matter of trust. In Canada if you tell your therapist your feeling suicidal and they believe it is imminent they are bound to contact the police who will go to your home and remove any firearms and post a ban on you acquiring any further weapons. Then months later the therapist no longer believes there is a crisis, tuff nuts the guns are gone and the chances of you recovering them or getting your firearm licence back are as close to nil as can be. Maybe that is minor issue for some but if part of who you are is incorporated in the ownership of a firearm or twenty then it is a definite step back. thats all in spite of the fact that any suicidal person can burn, cut , hang, jump, run naked into the frozen river etc. So until you can trust the therapist really trust them to know when you are talking suicide because your just frustrated or angry or whn your serious you cannot reveal those
thoughts or feelings.

[Lucky Laser]

Sometimes I am afraid to tell my therapist things not because I believe he will think poorly of me but because -I- am afraid of my own reaction to the things I say. Talking about certain triggers gets me all shaky and sweaty and that's pretty embarrassing. But over time I do tell him things honestly. I know that I have to in order to get maximum benefits from the therapy and if I can't do that then I need to find someone else.

I know that from the medical standpoint its really hard for me when patients aren't completely honest with me. I tell them that I will not judge them or look down upon them for anything they tell me but soooo many times the blood tests tell me things they won't and then their treatment has to change and I wish I'd have known the truth earlier. But I can understand... if they don't know me, why should they trust me? Trust takes a long time, especially for someone who has been hurt. Sometimes I see so much pain and fear in their eyes. All I can do is forgive them and keep on caring for them.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

TRUST! I agree with tude this is earned and I only give it when I feel comfortable that the person I'm talking to is credible (and that never fully happens). I'm not handing over my life to some one I don't know.

This is my mind that I am dealing with here, and I'm not letting some person that I barely know tinker with it. How about you give your doctor your first born child and let them take it home and care for it until you heal from child birth? What could possibly happen to the child, they are doctors?

Grama Herc, I certainly hope you never get into the hands of a mad scientist who wants to preform experiments with repressed memories. Yikes!

Peace
Tammy

[nic]

I think trust has a lot to do with it as well. A few years ago my T and I were discussing my desire to have children, and she asked me why I feel the need to do so. It was tough to find the right words/feelings for a response, and I asked her, "Well, do you have children?" Now I had been seeing her for over a year at that point, she answered with a very cold, "I do not share any personal information with patients." I know that Ts aren't supposed to share their personal information, etc. with us, but I felt like I wasn't asking for any kind of details and my question did pertain to what we were talking about. Now if she can't even tell me if she is a mother or not, how does she expect me to share with her every detail about horrific personal traumas that happened to me?

The other thing that I think inhibits discussing everything is the pain and the shame that it causes. When I just think about the trauma, let alone talk about it, I feel like a knife is imbeded into my heart, and with each question I'm asked, that knife is slowly twisted.

[nor]

oh nic, I am so sorry she made you feel so intrusive.

I brought that up to my T as well-asking him personal stuff. And he simply stated that if he didn't want to answer, he would simply say so. I told him that his response would be a rejection, and would hurt. And I would be embarrassed for having asked. Therefore, I admonish myself for even having considered asking him anything personal. Can't "trust" the response I might get.

I totally agree with you. If you are on guard about your questions to them, how can you trust they understand what you are talking about, how can you trust they will be empathetic to your feelings.

Yes, oh yes.....trust is a very key concept.

[linasmom]

I see things a little differently. When I decided to go to therapy, I knew what that would entail, and I assume that all of us know what therapy entails, it means we will have to divulge our traumatic events in order to heal ourselves. To go into therapy, something that I seek out for myself, and not tell all on purpose, is counter-productive in my eyes. I would have to seriously ask myself why I was in therapy in the first place - is it to pacify my fragile and irrational state of mind or is it to learn how to face my traumas, deal with them and cope with the resulting symptoms? I'm surely not paying someone with a PHD hundreds of all dollars a session to pacify me, I'm paying him to do his job. He is not my friend. He is not a member of my family. He is my Therapist, a professional. I do not expect him to do anything more than his job, and if I don't like the style in which he works, then I will find a new one. I would not take his particular "style" personally and if I do (and I HAVE), again I find a new one.

I don't go into the supermarket and expect that they do their job differently simply because I don't like the way in which they choose to sell their food, I simply find a new grocery store, but I would never starve myself.

To stay with a therapist that one doesn't trust or doesn't fit one's "style", is harmful and a waste of time. If you generally like your therapist but at times, your therapist pushes you in ways that feel uncomfortable and not to your liking, I take that more as a reflection of the patient and not the therapist. A person is either willing to heal or not.

I hope this doesn't sound as if I don't believe in a patient having a say regarding their health, because I do believe in that concept. However, like Herc, I have noticed a lot of posts about not wanting to "go there" in therapy and I've wondered to myself why that person is in therapy in the first place.

I'm not a therapist, that's why I hire one.

Best,
Rachel

[nic]

While I have had a few different doctors and therapists over the years, I find it hard to "shop" for a new one because for one thing, my very few seem to take my insurance. Also, when I switch, I feel like I have to start all over, telling my story to someone new and all that.

[linasmom]

I totally understand, Nic, as I have been there. But, no one said it was easy. I hope I'm not coming off as too harsh.

[spiritofnow]

I can only speak for myself in answering the main theme of this question.

I guess for a long time I have worn a mask or hid behind the facade of a particular persona. I did not do this knowingly or with an alteria motive it came from a subconscious level. I was lost to myself!

I thought that to be accepted and to accept myself I had to present the positive attributes of who I am in life. Being, happy, strong, successful and assertive. I shunned all the other stuff that was under the surface, the self loathing, depression, feeling like a failure, blah blah. This is where I lived in 'denial', denial about my past, who I was and how I really felt.

As I move further forwards through the journey of healing I learn more and more and with this learninig I try my best to embrace who I am and offer myself acceptance. Not so easy but I try!

I guess I feel this links in with the question, people not being honest with their T's, comes down to the fact that although living this life is/was a lie, it was who I became. In order to be honest with a T I firstly had to begin unwrapping all of these layers so that I could indeed even highlight how I felt. Soemtimes, I still forget that I don't have to be strong 'spirit' I am allowed to show my vulnerabilties and ask for help. Sometimes, I am still scared too! Not sure how too?

I guess this is why some people go in and come out with the same issues, until they can see their own truths. When they are truly ready they will share honestly and openly. Afterall, a therapist just faciltates healing, we have to be ready for that process and until we feel truly ready and learn to trust in ourselves we may never trust them completely.

We all have to start somewhere even if it is not always successful!

Spirit x

[dlross]

Sitting here thinking of times I have withheld stuff in therapy. the reason has always been fear. fear of rejection, fear of provoking the rage I would innocently and inexplicably summon upon my head as a child.

So the question then is, why stay with a therapist who has not created an atmospehere of sufficient safety that I can talk about anything and everyhing? Because sometimes some kind of therapy is better than none.

Two years ago when I was in desparate shape, it took me six long months, months in which my mental state continued to deteriorate, to find anyone state funded who would or could see me. Even though the situation with that person was far from ideal and there were things I did not feel safe talking about, it was stabilising, and I stuck with it until two things happened. I realised that I was not going to get done what needed doing with this person. And I was in touch with other professionals I knew I could rely on to find me a good replacement. They have resources and connections I simply don't. So now I am in between, on a waiting list. And that is OK.

[grace5555]

I guess I will "open up" and throw my 2 cents into the ring. =) It took me 8-12 months to even begin to trust my T enough to go deep into the pain although I "liked" her and felt relatively safe from the beginning. I have been systematically taught how to not trust so trusting was and is a very difficult thing to get. I now trust her enough to share quite literally everything - she has never shamed me or ridiculed me for what I have been through and how I have coped. She challenges and encourages me constantly and because I now trust her, her voice in my life is invaluable. I am very, very careful at who I allow to speak into my trauma because I am still very fragile, but my T...I can trust and be open to her advice and encouragements.

[Cindy]

The times I limit my sharing is because I can't wrap myself around the thoughts to clearly present them. They are still in the jumbled state. Sometimes I skirt the issue to try and bring clarity to the thoughts and maybe state them but usually it takes another week for me to clean them up.

Another reason I sometimes limit my discussion with the therapist is I know what he is going to say, and I don't want to hear it again. I know this is probably faulty thinking because he may not say what I think.

Just last week I became suicidal and was seeing my therapist the next day. I didn't call him because I didn't (couldn't) get into it without getting more upset and risking a hospitallization which would really disrupt the whole cart.
I did share it with him the following evening. I did manage to move on and distract myself by sorting beads for three hours. No sleep that night. But I made it through.

I get what you are all saying about the trust is key. I do trust my therapist.
I just need the control of my own choices sometimes. I guess I look at it as a way to manage the amount of pain I walk away with from the constant digging and rooting around through my gut and head.

[2quilt]

I also, am afraid that what I tell my T will shock him or make him think I am weird or lying.

I once wanted to get into a clinical trial for PTSD and the interview lasted 6 hours! At then end of it, the fella who interviewed me looked at me and with a terrible facial expression, he said, "Wow, you really have a lot of PTSD!" as if I was toxic waste or something. I felt so dirty and I will never get that look he had out of my memory.

I never want to get that reaction from another human being.

[linasmom]

This topic and its subsequent replies have triggered me. I came on last night to reply to this thread again and I found myself consumed with anger and anxiety. I don't know why.

I'm angry again as I write this.

I'm perplexed yet fully understand the reasoning behind not telling your T everything. I feel that the reasons behind not telling your T everything are irrational, though. A therapist's job in life is to assess not judge. Have the majority of people posting to this thread actually had a therapist who judged them? OR was a response to your trauma by a therapist perceived as being judgmental by you, the patient? Let's be honest with ourselves here - most of us suffer from distorted thinking and become extremely reactionary when we are triggered (hey, maybe I'm doing it right now??!!).

I'm just curious, how many people here have tried rationalizing this problem within their own head?

Just because your doctor does something that you don't like doesn't mean he is not trustworthy! To expect someone, anyone, to act how you want them to act, when you want them to do so, is completely absurd in my book. Maybe I'm reading all of these replies incorrectly and again, for some reason I have become triggered and it seems that all I can see from these posts are people who want dogs instead of doctors.

I truly and deeply hope that I have not offended anyone and if I have, then I apologize.

Best,
Rachel

[linasmom]

a smoke can do wonders. I think I'm able now to use some brevity and articulate what is disturbing me about this thread.

I strongly believe in personal responsibility. The posts in this thread have come across, to me, like people are refusing to take on the personal responsibility that goes hand in hand with going to therapy and healing oneself.

Best,
Rachel

[spiritofnow]

I strongly believe in personal responsibility. The posts in this thread have come across, to me, like people are refusing to take on the personal responsibility that goes hand in hand with going to therapy and healing oneself.
Best,
Rachel

I agree with what you have said! If you read my thread I have tried to outline some of the issues that I believe cause people to feel this way, (not trust in therapy).

I agree too with what others' on here have also said, shame, fear of rejection, trust all hinder our progress. These are just things that take time for us to work through. I don't feel that this equates to people negating persoanl responisibilty in all circumstances, some just take longer to own it!

You are Okay to feel angry, perhaps as you have outlined you are tapping in to your own feelings? We are each on an individual journey and will learn different aspects as we travel along. Embrace your anger and explore it, challenge why you are?!

Just remember we are all complex beings with different perspectives on life as well as PTSD. Personal responsibility is key, to own it, to see it, and to undertsand how to use it for our greater good!


Spirit x

[Cecilia]

Linasmom:

I agree with what you are saying, also. We do have to take responsibilty, but to get through the process, one needs a therapist they can share all their feelings with comfortably. I am drawn more to some personalities more than others. For me real aggressive therapists feel threatening, but somebody else may really like their style.

If I don't warm up to a therapist after 3 or 4 sessions then I know I might benefit more from a different therapist.

[She Cat]

I agree that people need to be responsible for their own therapy and well being. Yes there are a lot of issues that we have dealing with going to a therapist and telling everything. Trust, shame, quilt, fear, rejection, ect, ect. BUT!!!!!! We need to be able to take the plunge and go forward with things.

You can't keep going to therapy week after week, month after month, year after year, and NOT open up. You're not being honest to yourself, and IMO you are wasting the therapist time, and yours.

If a person doesn't open up, then they don't move forward.

[Brit]

I agree 100%, but it is tough to do. We are dealing with a lot of shame, and that is not easy to deal with regardless of whether the person is a T or not. I trust my T and she knows an awful lot more about me than my wife, and I am now wondering if there is anything that I have held back from discussing with my T.

[dlross]

Just rereading some of the posts in this thread it struck me that some of the thoughts in a thread started a few days ago on the subject of transference are of some relevance to this topic as well...don't know how to make link here, but probably searching for transference will work.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Some people can't trust right away because when they were a child they trusted their abuser and that trust was broken. How does one get that trust back along with their innocence? Through hard work and patients with oneself and it doesn't happen over night. This is a long process that has to be taken in baby steps. Go ahead and judge something you may not know one inkling about. If it makes you mad or upsets you then you are judging and most likely stuck in judgment of everyone who doesn't think like you.

I was raised by criminals. They taught me to be a criminal so what do you think about criminals? You can't trust them! If I've known only criminals most of my life and became one, how quickly is it going to be for me to trust when I know even the nicest person with the best intentions won't have a bad day and do something that harms me? There is a possibility of a criminal in all of us but we refuse to see it because we are repressing those thoughts and actions. Don't think for one minute if you were on the streets starving to death you wouldn't steal some food. Have you ever went hungry for two and a half days (nothing but water)? I have, and it isn't a pleasant feeling. Actually it's pretty painful.

Lets be realistic here. You may think you trust your T and open completely up but about 15% of people are 100% honest with their T and I find it hard to believe the majority of this forum with the exception of 2quilt, tude and myself are the only ones that do not trust so easily.

Keep a mental note of this topic and next time your T or some one asks you a question you don't feel comfortable answering, ask yourself why? I bet it happens more often than you think because your not paying attention. Try this on for starters go and tell your T in the next session that you masturbated and you slept with some one you didn't know. Even better, tell them about the time you slapped your child in the face real hard because you lost control. If you can do this then I applaud your trust and openness. Good for you!

Peace
Tammy

[linasmom]

Seeking Nirvana, I don't know who you are addressing, but I'll go ahead and answer -

Firstly - I have gone hungry and I have stolen food because of it. I lived on the streets twice, once at 15 for a year, and once at 17 for a year. I don't know who you are addressing when you say "go ahead and judge something you have no inkling about". I'm sorry, but I have PTSD too, from years of sexual, physical and emotional abuse at the hands of my mother - for 15 years.

Of course I judge, and for anyone who says that they don't judge is a liar. We are human beings. However, I will argue that I'm definitely not "stuck" in judgment towards everyone who doesn't think like I do. Do you have any idea how many people that would be?? TONS! I'm atheist living in North Carolina. I don't judge all of the Christians who live here, I accept and respect their right to believe what they choose and in doing so I do not think any less of them.

It's funny that your perception is that only you, Tude and 2quilt are the only ones who do not trust your Therapist, by this thread. My perception of these posts suggests that everyone but me, Herc and SheCat are the only who DO trust our T. Perception is everything, I guess.

Absolutely, without a doubt, do I feel uncomfortable answering questions that "someone" has asked me and I refuse to do so. Because "someone" is Joe Schmo, who does not have a PHD in Psychology and who I am not paying to council me. Furthermore, Joe Schmo and myself do not have a confidentiality agreement.

I'm not sure why telling your therapist that "I masturbated and slept with someone I didn't know" is so out of the ordinary for a therapist to hear. I mean, come on. Masturbation - not that serious! Women and men have been doing it for years. I'm sorry that society has made women to feel as if they are not allowed to do so, but the reality is that women masturbating is not so taboo anymore, and neither is sleeping with somebody that you don't know. I'm not saying it's responsible, I'm simply saying that these examples are not shocking. Do you know what other types of people psychologists see? Pedophiles, perhaps.

It's really important to try and put things into perspective here.

[linasmom]

As an aside, I think it's really hurtful and uncool to say to someone else on this site who has PTSD that they may not have an "inkling" of understanding regarding the trust issue.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Hi Rachel,
I didn't mean to hurt anyone. But perception seems to be the problem here. My point was, I just don't feel everyone is so open with their T like these posts seem to have indicated and that is why I didn't single anyone out, because there are to many that I wasn't 100% sure about.

If you feel hurt because I said "you may not" have an inkling of understanding there is something deeply bothering you here. I didn't use an absolute and say "You do not" have an inkling. What bothers you may not bother others, and vice versa. I can not predict that, and walk on egg shells when I post something here. Otherwise I might as well never make a post or give my opinion.

I think this site is to help others see different views and opinions and challenge everyone to be honest with themselves so healing can take place.

[linasmom]

I think this site is to help others see different views and opinions and challenge everyone to be honest with themselves so healing can take place.

I totally agree! Which is why I have voiced my opinion in this thread. I don't think you should have to walk on eggshells, however I took your post as being attacking and felt as though you were assuming what others here have and have not experienced for themselves and almost challenging others in some of your statements (ie. try telling your therapist such and such) But, if that was not your intention, then I can accept that.

That doesn't change my original reaction - I thought it was hurtful and uncool in my eyes. I still have a right to express those feelings.

Best,
Rachel

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Yes you have the right to express whatever you like, and it would be uncool if I said you don't have an inkling of what I'm talking about, because I don't know for sure if you have and inkling of what I'm talking about.

I didn't state that everyone here doesn't understand my point of view. That is what I'm trying to figure out.

I'm trying to see why some of the members are upset that a few of us don't trust enough to tell our T everything. Also, I don't think everyone is as honest with their T as they say they are. But that is just my opinion and could be wrong.

Carry on in peace
Tammy

[linasmom]

Well, just for clarifications sake, I want to be sure that I've answered the questions that you have, since I'm one of the people here who became upset regarding people not telling their T everything.

"it would be uncool if I said you don't have an inkling of what I'm talking about, because I don't know for sure if you have and inkling of what I'm talking about."

A few posts back, I said this: I'm perplexed yet fully understand the reasoning behind not telling your T everything.

"I'm trying to see why some of the members are upset that a few of us don't trust enough to tell our T everything."

A few posts back, I said this: I strongly believe in personal responsibility. The posts in this thread have come across, to me, like people are refusing to take on the personal responsibility that goes hand in hand with going to therapy and healing oneself.

and this: it seems that all I can see from these posts are people who want dogs instead of doctors.

"I don't think everyone is as honest with their T as they say they are. But that is just my opinion and could be wrong."

I am honest with my Therapist. However, nothing I say or do will prove that to you because what goes on between my Therapist and I is private. Beyond that, I also don't think that I have to prove anything to you. You can either believe me or not.

So, I hope I've been able to clarify some things for you regarding my view about this subject. I appreciate the civil discussion and hopefully others who are upset about people not being honest with their T's will clarify some things for you, too.

Best,
Rachel

[tude]

Wow, this makes me want to open-up and honestly share...:rofl:...and have a group hug later? (Did I mention how uncomfortable it is for me to be touched as well?)

Sleep-deprived and slap-happy, tude

[Grama-Herc]

Well, we seem to be having a rather intense conversation going on here. I am amazed at the pros and cons. I had no idea how strong people feel about this.

In my orginal post I simply asked a question. I did not understand WHY anyone would waste their time and money in therapy and not tell the truth. Therapy is difficult enough to handle. Pile dishonesty and non-disclosure on top of that, and IMHO you have a disaster.

I did not consider trust as an issue. in my orginal post. I guess that is because I was so relieved to be receiving treatment.

It really never occurred to me to "not trust" the people who were helping me. It seemed like everytime I said something another piece to the puzzle of my life fell into place.

Now, I must admit that when I was in the hospital and in group therapy, it took me 5 days before I would open my mouth. But group therapy was infront of other patients. Big difference! I did not trust them!

After 5 days I realized that the others were as screwed up as I was so what was to trust. Were we going to play 1 upsman. My trauma was worse than yours? Stupid! ! !

The therappist, counselor, MD--everyone there I trusted. It never occurred to me not to trust them. I just wanted them to help me. When I left the hospital, they referred me to another private T. Why would I not trust him? They sent me there.

It took me a while to tell some secrets, but through the tears and pain of each visit it was obvious to me that he knew what he was doing.

So the intensity of the reaction of some of you guys has really surprised and fasinated me> I just love to stir the pot and create thinking!

[She Cat]

I did NOT say that I did NOT understand why people don't trust.

This is what I said....

I agree that people need to be responsible for their own therapy and well being. Yes there are a lot of issues that we have dealing with going to a therapist and telling everything. Trust, shame, quilt, fear, rejection, ect, ect. BUT!!!!!! We need to be able to take the plunge and go forward with things.

You can't keep going to therapy week after week, month after month, year after year, and NOT open up. You're not being honest to yourself, and IMO you are wasting the therapist time, and yours.

If a person doesn't open up, then they don't move forward.


When you don't tell the entire story, your therapist can't FULLY help you. You just may be holding back the part of the story that he/she needs to FULLY help you.

Yes, I told my therapist all that I knew at the time. I am no longer in therapy, but if I was, he would know all there is to know to date......

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Well, this is good that in the last 3 posts it was pointed out what you meant. I obviously took what I wanted in the prior posts and lumped it all into one theory. My bad!

I'm too distracted to go back and read all of the posts so peace out.

Tammy

[Grama-Herc]

She Cat

Did I say something to upset you or that was out of line? You seem a little upset. I certainly did not intend to do that.

I must admit that this topic has become more intense than I anticipated, which is so cool!

[2tired2deal]

Another thought;

Many times it takes more than one attempt to find the therapist who 'fits'. Not all therapists are made the same. Where I live, they have to undergo therapy themselves before they can be licensed. Even so, personality differences exist; what works for one may not work for another. So if you have a bad vibe off a therapist; maybe they remind you too much of where your trauma came from; well, you're not going to share. And it's tough to invest even a session or two and then have to break off and try to start again, especially if you didn't want to go to counseling to start with...

[She Cat]

Herc,

I am not upset or pissed at anyone. Just trying to clarify what I said is all. I am cool with this also, and really think that people should be open and upfront with their therapist.

It comes down to personal choice, but then again.......If you don't tell all, HOW does your therapist help you with only snippets of the problem??? JMO!!!!

[Grama-Herc]

My feelings exactly ! ! !

[2quilt]

I went to one therapist last week for the first visit, about 24 hours after I was injured in a car wreck. When I told him that the previous day I had been rearended in a car accident, he didn't even look at me or move a muscle, he never spoke. It was as if he was alone in the room. The session ended at 20 minutes, and I will never see him again! How could I begin to trust someone who does not give the slightest damn about me? Phuque him.

[Awakening]

OK, I've been trying to stay clear of this thread but it is really pissing me off.

Is the point of the thread to genuinely enquire & challenge those reluctant to talk in therapy or is to say how proud you of yourself for getting to a certain point in your recovery? Both are fine but let's be honest about it.

I don't know if I'm missing something here or misunderstanding the question or subsequent posts so please steer me right if I've got it wrong. But here goes.

I thought a big part of PTSD was a reluctance to talk about the details of the trauma? I think avoidance of emotions/feelings etc is common. Certainly that's been my experience but maybe I have some subtype of PTSD.

Furthermore, I actually don't remember some or all aspects of my trauma. So not sure how I can 'tell all' when I don't 'remember all'. Again, thought failure to remember certain key elements of the trauma was not that uncommon in people suffering PTSD.

Do you have to push yourself to tell your therapist things. Yes. Should it be hard work. Yes. Of course you can't keep trotting out "I can't tell my therapist that" line continously. But initially in the early stages it's not at all uncommon for those suffering the affects of trauma to do such thing. But eventually as the relationship grows, as the symptoms are down to a more manageable level, as the environment the sufferer in is more stable, then the sufferer should be pushing themselves more and more each session.

Personally, I trust my therapist as much as I can trust anyone. She is highly qualified and experienced in PTSD. I can only go on the feedback she gives me (and maybe she's blowing smoke up my butt) that I work incredibly hard and that my progress is rapid.

Despite all my hard work, there are times that I go in with full intentions to say x, y, z and it doesn't happen.

I have yet had anyone explain to me in a language that I understand why that happens.

Except to say 'just say it' or 'your in denial' or 'your not trying hard enough' or 'well I can do it why can't you'

Sometimes there are merits in some of those things, and I will look at myself and discover that I'm not pushing myself enough or particularly early on there was no doubt I was in denial.

But other times, these just don't wash. The best I can work out is that there is complicated system of defense mechanisms that I employ. It may be that I become hostile & aggressive towards the therapist, I over intellectalise/analyse, I dissociate and geniunely forget etc etc. I'm trying to work out what defense mechanisms I use so that I become aware of them, and through that awareness, hopefully stop them before they start.

Most likely these are the defense mechanisms I employed during the trauma.

What I'd love to see from this thread is some constructive challenges & advice on how to over come those defense mechanisms, how do you recognise them and overcome them. Particularly if you can tell everything to your therapist so openly, I really think that would be helpful for others to learn from. Rather then "I have no problem with that", I'm really curious to know what you may be doing differently.

For the record what helps me is writing it down beforehand, and handing it over.

I'd also like to challenge those who say "But I can't tell my therapist...." as to what are the feelings behind that statement which some have already done - Shame being a big factor, which I totally understand but perhaps we can pool our ideas to work out a way to overcome the shame factor which in turn may help those to be more candid with their therapist.

I don't know anyone who would intentionally waste time & money, but I do know that traumatised people may lose their voice. If you've found your voice then great, let's see if we can all help each other find our own.

[linasmom]

wow, this thread is like the PTSD fun ride at the carnival. I'm sorry, I really felt the need to make a funny, (I'm sure I'm the only one laughing).

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

[linasmom]

argh...I just realized that me saying "im sure I'm the only one laughing" may come across the wrong way. What I meant is that I tend to have a strange sense of humor, not that I'm laughing at the people here. I include myself in the statement.

oh, the irony.

[She Cat]

Awakening,

My intention is not to put anyone down, nor raise myself up and pat me on the back for a job well done.

As I mentioned on either this thread or another one. It was the fact that life wasn't working for me anymore. I had just had my 7th suicide attempt, and the head shrink on the ward asked me if life was working for me. I told him no and then he basically told me to get with the program.

I was in and out of therapy from age 15 till then, with only telling somethings, laughing about other things, not telling how I felt, what had been done to me, how I reacted. I had a chip on my shoulder the size of Texas, and an attitude to match.

That day in the ward, he made me see that unless I opened up my soul and spilled my guts that everything I had inside of me was just going to rot me from the inside out. That my coping skills were not effective anymore, I needed to learn new and healthy ones.

I basically had to give up control of the driver seat. I had to put my faith in the fact that someone else may just be better equipped to do this, because I certainly wasn't. I was a **** up. Messing up my life and those that I cared about the most.

Once I opened up, it was easy to spill my guts. It was a heavy burden that had been lifted.

Sorry if this offends anyone...NOT my intention.......I do know how hard it is to trust another human being when you have been violated to the point that you feel stripped of your soul, and that you are nothing but a mere shell of the human you were before,,,BUT!!!!!!!! DO you deserve to stay this way?????? Do you deserve to remain that victim???? Do you deserve to NOT live????? Do you deserve to feel less than human??????

Yes opening up to your therapist is a choice. A hard one, but a choice non the less. I for one was a victim for most of my life. I TOOK the power back the day I decided I was NOT a victim anymore. I spilled my guts, took my share of the responsibility, placed blame where it needed to be, and I took back my life.

I have made many mistakes along the way, and through out my life. I still make them, but I am a much better person, I have learned a lot through this journey, and continue to learn. PTSD is a work in progress......

[Awakening]

She Cat, I couldn't agree with your post above more, and I'm sorry to hear of your experiences.

Don't get me wrong I think this thread is fantastic - we need more like this - challenging our behaviours & perceptions.

I also think that you & Grama Herc speak my preferred language: common sense.

It just seemed, and perhaps my warped perception only, that a question was asked - Why don't people tell their therapist everything? and people were genuinely posting back their responses. Responses like; I feel shame so don't tell, The fear overwhelms so I don't tell or It takes time for me to trust someone before I will tell.

People were answering the question, and then it seemed like they weren't being listened to, that it was still being met with "but your therapist is there to help you why won't you tell".

But obviously you do get it, because you've just said you had similiar experience at one time, but basically hit rock bottom and then had to haul arse out of it. Good for you.

My point was that we are all at different stages, and some aspects affect us more. I don't have agrophobia, but if I was to post the question "Why won't you leave the house" there is a difference between geninuely wanting to know and maybe imparting some of my experience as opposed to responding with something like "Well I don't get it I can leave the house. Leaving the house is good for you, just push yourself". That was all.

No particular individual was pissing me off, but the way the thread was going was because I thought we were missing some good opportunities to explore.

But I particularly agree with your victim comment. I never thought of myself as a victim, actually hate the word. But some of my behaviour in holding back in therapy, well it was behaviour of a victim. Saying I can't do it, it's too difficult for me - is like a learned helplessness. A shrug of the shoulder oh well, I can't do it was classic victim talk. I had to push myself, declare I'm going to empower myself not act like a victim and dig into the reasons why - like fear, shame, the risk that emotion might spill out.

If someone is not telling all to their therapist because of shame - then from my experience I would tell them tell this to your therapist. I did. I said I have stuff to say but I can't because I feel ashamed. Rather then saying nothing at all. She then knew I had something to say and we worked solely on the feeling of shame. We used writing, drawing, some empty chair technique etc.

If it takes time to trust - how much time? 4 sessions, 14, 44 ??? What is reasonable and when does it become an excuse? Why aren't you trusting yet? Have you told your therapist you don't trust him/her? That you have trust issues? It could be that your therapist runs 10 minutes late regularly which is why you don't trust them. It's worth digging for.

Anyway I'm rambling my point was; if you are not disclosing all to your therapist because of x, y or z, then you don't necessarily have to wait for x, y or z to magically be resolved or go straight to the issue. You can start by telling your therapist I want to tell you something but can't because of x, y or z. The therapist will the work on the x y or z breaking down those barriers to get to the something.

[She Cat]

Awakening,

I really hate the word can't.......IMO.....It means, I won't, I don't have too. Yes, I too believe that it is the emotions behind the words "I can't" that hold us back. Fear, shame, guilt, anger, or whatever. Those emotions are real, and warranted. But, to hold onto them, stops you from moving forward. I hold on to guilt and I am struggling on HOW to let go of it. I am working toward that goal. Yes, It is a struggle, but I am trying.

I think that for those of us that have those feelings (myself included) we need to really look at the emotions and see if they apply to us now. Is it time that we leave those emotions, resolve them, and focus on moving forward???

We only need to be responsible for what we own, and nothing more.

As I have said to another member here.....What each of us write is only an opinion. It isn't attacking, or belittling, or judging. If a thread or post upsets or triggers someone, then apparently it is an issue within them that isn't being resolved. I have been trigger by threads, and posts too. I try to figure out why, and how to resolve it.

I for one am glad that this thread is here. I think it has a lot of people thinking. I know it has triggered others. Hopefully it will allow us all as a community to come together for a common goal. To help each other overcome our fears.....

[sunnydaze]

I agree with all replies of this thread a little. I seem to tell my T's right away of what I have been through and if they seem not compassionate towards me, I seek another. Some hear it than never want to discuss what has caused me to be the way I am today due to the tramas that I have been through. They think immediately lets move on and go forward. Than doesn't work for me.
I have truly been blessed with the last 3 T's. The first of these went on to bigger opportunities and I had to move on. The second moved to New Mexico. The one I see now is one I have been with through 12 years. He is the best of the best. He geniunely cares about me and when he doesn't hear from me in a while he calls checking up on me. What keeps me from not seeing him as often as I should is finances. He tells me not to worry about it but money worries have always been an issue with me. United States laws are trying to change the charges as a regular doc visit would cost instead of a fee and percentage.
sunnydaze

[Auburngirl]

This is an interesting thread. I really try to push myself to share everything that seems relevant with my therapist. It can be hard to do and I usually bring notes with me so that I remember and can push myself to talk about things that are hard.

But I'm sure I'm also not the only one who has symptoms that really get in the way of disclosure. I'd say on average I dissociate 5 times a session. It gets in the way of speaking and is a real barrier to communication. When I'm there for therapy I find my ability to communicate is really limited. And this does mean the whole story doesn't always get across. I do recognise this a problem, but I'd be really furstrated with someone who felt I was deliberately wasting time and/or the government's money. I'm trying my best, and we're working together to try to find ways to get me to talk about things.

[Grama-Herc]

Well, I must put my 2 cents in at this point. Again! I am so impressed with the way this thread has affected you guys. The discussion are intense and insightful and very helpful to all of us.

One of you guys said something? that triggered a memory about my T.

I sometimes would leave his office and wonder why all I did was listen to his ramblings about his getaway cabin in the Carolinas? That was my impression of the session.

Once I got home, calmed down and digested the session, I realized that his ramblings were short and in his own incredible way redirected me to a point or memory I was avoiding.

He was so good at that, but I took it the wrong way everytime.As I look back on those sessions now, those were the ones where I got the most anger out of my system.

I'm just glad I did not take his ramblings as "not caring". I would have lost a good T.

[nic]

Going back to my earlier post about the feeling of the "knife twisting in my heart" every time the trauma comes up, I think that, for me, not only is it a trust issue, but it's also a stability issue. Even with the PTSD and all that crap, I'm fairly stable. I can go to work, take care of things that need to get done, and basically function and lead (what appears to be) a "normal" life.

BUT, if I push myself too hard in threapy, and discuss things that I don't feel comfortable discussing, I am likely to become unstable and not be able to function. (And in fact, most of the times I have been on this brink of instability was due to things that were said during therapy rather than other triggers from the PTSD.) While I know most of you think that it's better to get it all out in order to heal, thinking more about the long term and all, this isn't as simple as it sounds. If I do get unstable, I can't work. If I can't work, I may lose my job. If I lose my job, I lose my house and all that I've worked for. If I lose my house, I have nowhere to live. Etcetera, etcetera. So for me, sometimes not being fully open IS what's best...at least for now.

[Anonymoose]

My current therapist is someone who deliberately traumatized me in the past. I see him because he's free. I'm seeking other, more viable treatment options. Any suggestions on how to find a therapist without health insurance or money?

[Grama-Herc]

Nic

Understand the need to work and keep your life together. I was blessed beyond belief throughout my entire episode and breakdown. Mother was there to help.

I applied for disability and was lucky to receive it. But existing while I waited was a horror I would wish on no one! I always felt like I was about two days away from a cardboard box under a bridge.

As you may or may not know, I remember -ZERO- of my trauma. I have no clue what put me into this mess. Throughout the therapy I was getting, my T. took me to many unrelated issues, I thought, that I really did not want to visit. I guess my desire to be able to function was stronger than my fear---at the point!

I have no idea what I would do now if I had to return to work. I physically could not do it. My agoraphobia sends my body into a sick tail spin that does not ease until I know for positive that I will not have to leave the house. I physically can't leave the house. I won't go into graphic detail but believe me when I say going outside is not an option for me unless I am completely ready, medicated and the need is greater than the fear.

But I am rambling now, sorry. I tend to do that some times. It is the isolation.

[nic]

Hi Grama-H, yes, agoraphobia is not fun. I'm glad you have support-emotionally and financially-as going through this can be so difficult. I feel for you with the whole isolation thing. Take care of yourself; I'm rooting for you! :-)

[linasmom]

Nic,

I know that if I were working right now, there would be no way I could function the next day after therapy. I totally understand trying to keep your sessions at a tolerable level because of this.

There is a drawback of me not working right now though, I've become more agoraphobic than I was. It's a rare white elk day if I'm seen out of the house.

Best,
Rachel

[morgan]

Me too Rachel!

[Monarch]

I too work and I keep my sessions to a tolerable rate as well, I know that i can't push as hard or I will be sick for days and I can't have that. My T. thinks it is amazing that I do the work that i do because I not only manage people but projects in a high stress financial environment, oh and i have 2 kids and a hubby! I have to watch out for pitfalls because my glass is already about to overflow on most days. However, when I was laid off and looking for a new job for 2 months I rarely left the house, i took my daughter to daycare and my son to summer camp, even though I was home because I wanted to be by myself. That was a "bad mom" moment or two but it helped me keep myself together and during that time I didn't talk to my T. about my trauma at all we talked about only present things because we had to. I should add that I have the greatest T. in the World and we have done tremendous work together!