How Do You Know If The Meds Are Working Or Working Against You?

[linasmom]

I will try to be as articulate as possible but because I'm so confused on the whole matter, this may sound disjointed, so I apologize in advance.

My latest attempt at anti-depressants began in August of 2007. I needed to get on them because I was raging and my anxiety was out of control. I was put on Lexapro which stabilized my rages but not my anxiety. I was just on the Lexapro for 4 months but the Lexapro also made me extremely apathetic and took away my sex drive. As a result, my physician added Wellbutrin to the mix. After a few weeks of complete torture (hallucinations caused by the "pick me up" that Wellbutrin is known for), my physician took me off the combination and put me on 150 mg Effexor. My rages have calmed, however I still become irrationally angry. My anxiety is more manageable but take the Xanax for any bad attacks. Sleep is still currently a huge problem but I refuse to take the Trazodone because it makes me feel like a walking lava lamp. I still have no sex drive. I'm still not happy. I feel no emotions other than anxiety and the irrational anger when I have it. Beyond that, I feel nothing and my concentration is shot to hell. My husband said that my attention span is about 30 seconds long. If he's trying to tell me something he knows that he has to get it out in 30 seconds or less or else he knows that he's lost me. I'm zoning out more and more. I'm in bed half of the day and all of the night in a lucid sleep state.

Soooooo, *ugh*, I guess my question is this: what the hell am I going through? Is this depression (I do know what depression feels like and this does feel like depression but I'm on meds!!!)? Is this the meds making me feel like this? Do the meds need increased or should I just stop them? Obviously, I know no one here can make those decisions for me, but I'm just so damn confused. Shouldn't the meds be making me feel better?? Also, I am in therapy right now, so I'm not just relying on the meds.

I don't know who I am anymore and I'm not even sure I know who I used to be.

Help! :dontknow::dontknow:

Best,
Rachel

[morgan]

Rachel, sometimes the meds help too much. In my case it is perfect cause i Don't want to instigate sex... Oh no! When you have a partner you need to feel that sexual feeling. I don't know what drugs help or inhibit that. I do know that touching and talking can help. But I'm at a loss other than that! Good luck with this.

Take care, Morgan

[anthony]

Medication is trial and error.... anti-depressants do factually and scientifically increase depression in many who take them, or when combined with another medication they have that effect. Go figure.... nothing new, just fact. Depression medication is not a good medication to ever be upon, instead you should take medications to control anxiety and seek other means to control depression, such as daily exercise and healthy eating is the best known and factually proven method to combat depression without making you worse. You just have to force yourself into that lifestyle change and you make time daily to get out and go for a good walk, do something practicable, etc, for atleast an hour a day.

Healthy eating and diet by itself can drastically reduce depression, let alone when combined with exercise the combination is near unbeatable. Medication is not the solution for depression IMHO. Anxiety yes, depression no.

[linasmom]

Anthony,

I do agree about changing my lifestyle - exercising and a healthy diet - my husband is a huge advocate for exercising, I just need the motivation.

However - what about the rages? I'm terrified of going off the meds because of the raging, which doesn't just hurt me, but it hurts others - my husband and my daughter. This is where I'm just so torn. I'm in therapy to work on this but it is going to take a while and what do I do in the mean time?

[anthony]

The simple answer to withdrawals is..... put up with it and fight through it, as do those around you. Withdrawing from medication is no different than heroin... your body has come dependent upon the drug. Remove the drug, your body has adverse reactions, including mood. Those around you must simply be aware, you must not use it as an excuse, but instead do your best to fight through the withdrawals. It takes anywhere from 4 - 8 weeks to withdraw from medications, and even then it must be done correctly, slowly, a tapered approach.

Your anger is not medication though, as anger is not an emotion, its an emotional response. Depression medication has nothing to do with this.... there is no reason that you simply cannot come off all these meds and go onto just one anxiety medication, such as Xanax or the like. If you need anti-depressants, have you tried the most common form, being Prozac? Small doses of medications are also beneficial than the recommended dosage.

Do not rely just upon your physician for medication advice, instead seek advice from specialists.... even engage the services of a medication specialist to help you. Doctors sell drugs, some more than others, which is why I say not to always trust your physician in this area. Use commonsense, do research, find the facts for yourself, then trial and error is still the only method to find what works specifically for you. Lexapro is just a nasty medication overall, and I would advise you to get off it as it typically make depression worse from all accounts I have feedback, including my own experience with the drug. Go to more common drugs such as prozac if you need depression meds. I would recommend you get motivated though instead of anti-depressant medication. Again, only you can do it and only you can choose for you.... your choices, you live by them.

[linasmom]

Hey Anthony - I'm not really worried about "withdrawals", I'm more concerned with returning to the rages that I was experiencing before going on the meds. I was never really put on the meds because I was "depressed", I got on them for my anxiety and rage. I don't want to hurt myself or others with my rage if I go off of the meds. And I guess the question still remains, am I just going through a depression or are the meds making me depressed? aaaarrghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe I should see a med specialist, but I've never seen one before.

I have not tried Prozac, however my therapist thinks Paxil would work really well for me. I just feel like a test tube these days.

[2quilt]

You know that the drugs are working if you feel at peace most of the time.

[anthony]

Ok, I can understand that. Anger though is an emotional response, and medication won't actually calm a response of anger, rage, etc... it only suppresses the emotion in an attempt, though always fails. People ask me how one comes off medication to live without it, or with only small doses compared to normal dosage. The answer still remains the same.... one must deal with the trauma, the fear, the negative stigma that you feel. I guess the answer really is what works for you best. Obviously a medication is making you depressed, as that is a side effect off anti-depressants and some other anxiety medications, in that they actually make depression worse. That means you have to change meds.... yes, I understand you feeling like a test tube for medications, unfortunately you must endure the process to find what works best for you as what your on is failing you.

My opinion only.... I would remove yourself from Lexapro immediately if still taking it. That is a known to increase suicidal ideation. Ditch it and replace the medication with something more common such as Prozac or similar. Lexapro is still quite new onto the market compared to Prozac. Whilst all medications have side effects, some more than others still.

You could easily wipe out all your medications for just one anxiety med. If you do one and one only, and being not one that is trying to treat two major issues, being anxiety and depression which is what Lexapro attempts and fails, then you will have a more stable foundation to base your approach upon. Example, go onto xanax and measure the results of your anxiety. If you improve greatly with little to no major side effects, stick with it. If not, exchange that drug for another, DO NOT allow your physician to prescribe more drugs to counter side effects of the one drug.... which is what is occurring to you from what your saying. That is a big no no.... one drug and it either works or it doesn't. You don't take more drugs to treat side effects, you just try another medication until you find the one that treats your anxiety with the least and little side effects as possible. Find it, stick with it and work like hell on your trauma.

I say that because your body will build immunity to that drug that works, and you will have to withdraw and change it. So you may as well just face all your fears on the drug that works best for you, then taper of that drug as your healing improves, then remove it or remain on a low dosage to just calm the minor constant anxiety that PTSD often stems for what PTSD is.

I would honestly seek a medication specialist though if you can, especially if you are being given drugs to treat side effects of another drug... that is all just wrong.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

My uncle has issue with rage and he takes Noritriptiline. Of course he doesn't work on his anger issues so the medication fails some times, but I noticed an improvement in him.

Maybe you could ask your doctor about this medication for rage?

Peace
Tammy

[dlross]

Depression medication is not a good medication to ever be upon, instead you should take medications to control anxiety and seek other means to control depression, such as daily exercise and healthy eating is the best known and factually proven method to combat depression without making you worse. You just have to force yourself into that lifestyle change and you make time daily to get out and go for a good walk, do something practicable, etc, for at least an hour a day.

I seldom post anything which disagrees with anyone, because most of the time differences of opinion are just that. But on this issue I feel the need to add my own experience to the mix.

I have suffered at least six major depressive episodes across over thirty years. For most of that time I was undiagnosed and untreated. Some of the time I did all the right things, eating and exercising, and these things perhaps made it possible for me to remain functional enough to get to my therapist's office. But I was not relieved of constant suicidal ideation, intolerable alienation and a physical sense of darkness and heaviness inside my very brain. Social interactions remained torturous. Work was impossible.

I am now on an antidepressant medication, and have been for 18 months. It took me a while to find the one that worked for me and which has no noticeable side effects for me. I may have to be on it for the rest of my life, and I am ok with that, becuase I understand that with the support of this chemical, I will probably actually remain alive. I bear long scars up both arms from my last encounter with a major depressive episode.

Antidepressants are not 'an exact science' But they can, and do save lives. Some lives anyhow, mine being one.

[She Cat]

I agree that anti depressants for some people can and will be the only treatment that is effective for them.

I think though that in todays society, Dr's are more eager to just had out a script and we as patients just get them filled. We have become a nation of pill poppers.

Relying on drugs to ease the symptoms.... Is just that. It eases the symptoms. It doesn't make them go away or lessen. Only therapy, and working toward healing can and will do that.

I guess it comes down to a personal choice, to take the meds or not. I have done both......

[linasmom]

I guess the issue for me is more about my symptoms - depression specifically - has gotten worse. The problem is, is it the meds or am I going through a depression? I definitely don't think the meds are miracle pills that will make me happy, however my depression is worse, but the rages are more manageable. I'm trading one for the other and I don't think that it's supposed to work that way. :wall::wall:

[morgan]

I've been on paxil for several years now and it has done wonders for my depression. I think you ought to give it a try. JMO

[She Cat]

Depression is my biggest struggle now. I totally understand where you are coming from......Rachel, you need to deal with this issue the best way for YOU.......

For me. It was dealing with my trauma and issues. That did wonders for my anger and rage. I no long get like a raging lunatic.

Hugs....

[anthony]

Antidepressants are not 'an exact science' But they can, and do save lives. Some lives anyhow, mine being one.
You are right, they do save some lives, however; people look for medication the moment they feel a little out of sorts. Suicidal ideation is something that comes with not only depression. You do not have to be depressed to have ideation, far from it. You can have suicidal ideation because you sick of flashbacks, nightmares or no sleep. You may start thinking that killing yourself is easier than dealing with that crap day after day. You don't need to be depressed to have it.

Major depressive disorder is a part of the PTSD diagnosis, no disagreement with that one. Very few people though actually have major depressive disorder uniquely from the induced symptoms of PTSD. When you heal the trauma you remove the symptoms of PTSD. PTSD will always produce some minor symptoms or issues even when controlled, hence its incurable aspect.

If you get depressed though five times a year, does that warrant taking an anti-depressant for the entire year? For some they may be able to justify that.... for other they cannot. It is a personal thing and there is no right answer. The only right or wrongs to medication is side effects and then some of the nonsense physicians pull with patients in prescribing them, ie. prescribing two or three medications to counter side effects of a primary medication, is not ethical or warranted. The right answer is to change the primary medication to one that produces less side effects for that person, not prescribe more medications to create a concoction of disastrous proportion and a ticking time bomb waiting to explode and go wrong.

Those are about the only right vs. wrong issues.

[linasmom]

So, how have others here dealt with being on meds while going through therapy? Since PTSD has so many symptoms that go along with it, and since certain side-effects from meds can mimic some PTSD symptoms, how have others been able to tell whether what they were feeling was PTSD related or med related?

[She Cat]

For me.....I had increased anxiety 24/7 while on meds. Plus my mouth felt like the bottom of a birdcage in the desert...... I knew it was the meds. When I came off the meds, my anxiety level went down. Not gone, but down to a manageable level.

[anthony]

Rachel, excellent point. For me, I didn't know until I went of meds to discover my real feelings in order to know exactly what I did have left to work upon. Whilst medicated though I didn't work on symptom based matters, I just worked at the trauma regardless what symptoms where doing. That is what I suggest others do here, always have actually.... just go at the trauma then work out the rest once the biggest parts are sorted first.

Excellent point though.... be interesting to see the experience shared. I guess what you ask is the reason for this forum though, in that to stop others learning from such drawn out experience and learn from others mistakes, to trust what so many have done the long way to discover a shorter method in which to manage and heal PTSD.

[grace5555]

Rachel ~ for me it is having a T who is very in tune with me and able to "translate" quite often what is med reactions with what is PTSD, etc. She is also in contact with my psychiatrist as I try new meds. I would be very, very careful about writing off anti-depressants completely - especially if you have a clinical depression diagnosis. Finding the right mix is hell but I hear it is possible. =)

[becvan]

I am on a med while in therapy. It took almost two years of mucking about with meds to find one that works. It has zero side effects for me (a bonus in life!) The meds have reduced my symptoms to manageable so that I can do therapy. I wasn't put on meds for depression. I am on meds for rages, anxiety and hypervigilence. With the meds lowering my symptom bar, it enables me to work on the actual issues, instead of fighting symptoms constantly. Not to say I don't have symptoms, because I do. Every day. It's just down to managing them, so that therapy is left for what it was meant for. Dealing with the trauma. For me this works beautifully. However I am lucky that I found a singular med that does what it should. Most don't.

bec

[pandora]

Ok....here is my take...I have now been on an antidepressant for more Am I depressed...right now, hell yes! I think it is all about how you frame your thoughts....I truly am living proof of that.....my current life situation along with ptsd and a spinal cord injury.....yep...sadness and though I know I am bound to have bad days...........I just keep reframing my negative to positive....it is the hardest thing I have ever had to do........not med related....meaning no antidepressants. i do take pain killers and a lot of ativan but I think you need to change your thinking processes.........just my opinion.

[anthony]

Well said Bec.... exactly what medication is for.... to give you breathing space to work like hell on your trauma, then you reduce and learn to do the same without them, OR, with a lesser dose to remove any residual and permanent anxious edge. Very well stated.

People need to know though, medication is firstly meant as a TEMPORARY treatment, secondly it is a matter of TRIAL AND ERROR to find the right ONE medication to treat PTSD. There is no requirement to be taking five or more medications when you are talking about PTSD alone. If you have another injury, yes... but that is not PTSD. PTSD alone requires usually one or two medications at most, anxiety and maybe depression. The rest are bullshit and of little use 99% of the time. You cannot treat symptoms of PTSD such as sleep or flashbacks with different medications, it doesn't work. If you lower the anxiety and the medication is working correctly for you, then you should actually be doing ok in most areas, sleep included, because the medication has correctly lowered your anxiety / panic levels to a more manageable level.

If you are knowingly taking medication which is treating side effects of another medication, then YOU'RE ON THE WRONG MEDICATION to begin with and need to withdraw from one and try another. Repeat the process until you have the right one for you.... and there is quite a range of SSRI's to treat anxiety and depression uniquely.

[linasmom]

Well, let's see - I've tried - Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Trazodone, Effexor, and Zoloft (and also a combination of said meds).

Bec, my most prevalent symptoms are the one you mentioned - anxiety, rage and hypervigilance - yes, I suffer from depression, but it is mild in comparison to the symptoms I just listed. Could you tell me what med you are on? If you don't feel comfortable listing on here, could you PM me?

I definitely have NO desire to be on meds any longer than I have to. I want to get through my EMDR sessions and be done with this crap. I am OVER feeling like I'm feeling right now.

[nic]

Quote from linasmom:

"...my therapist thinks Paxil would work really well for me."

While Paxil can work, be CAREFUL on this medication. I had a VERY hard time when I tried to stop taking it even though I went off of it very slowly.

[dlross]

I guess the issue for me is more about my symptoms - depression specifically - has gotten worse. The problem is, is it the meds or am I going through a depression? I definitely don't think the meds are miracle pills that will make me happy, however my depression is worse, but the rages are more manageable. I'm trading one for the other and I don't think that it's supposed to work that way. :wall::wall:

I find there is no easy answer to this kind of question. To add to what I wrote earlier, those who say that 'pills are not the solution' are correct in a way. The medication I am on alllows me to reach a level of clarity, stability and energy at which I can undertake the hard work of therapy and whatever else my recovery requires.

Recently I posted in another thread, when I was having a very hard few days, my doubts about the effectiveness of my medication at that time. One of the things I am learning to do now that I have the safety net of medication and therapy, is to learn what it feels like to have 'normal' ups and downs.

So, last week, I spent a few days feeling very depressed. Because of my history I livein fear of a return to clinical levels of depression, so one of my first thoughts / fears was that the medication wasn't working. But, after I started journalling and talking about some difficult emotions that had arisen in the course of the Easter weekend, I found that the weight of pain, despair and hopelessness I was feeling lifted.

There was no problem with my meds. The problem was my bad coping skills. Suppressing a lot of hard emotions was depressing me. These are the lessons I am able to learn when I am stable and clear enough.

[anthony]

There was no problem with my meds. The problem was my bad coping skills. Suppressing a lot of hard emotions was depressing me. These are the lessons I am able to learn when I am stable and clear enough.
Bingo.... absolutely well said. It is a temporary solution to enable you to work effectively through your trauma.

Often many people are prescribed medication and assimilate the immediate thinking that all these symptoms are just going to go away now and be controlled, as that is what pharmaceutical companies do enjoy making people believe. The facts though are quite different, and I have a lot of hard experience from thousands of people which all confirm the same thing... medication is a temporary solution to allow you to work through your trauma and learn management skills. Once you achieve this, medication is a low dose requirement or non-requirement. Some may use it during tough times only within their lives, some may do all the trauma therapy and want to work, so the sheer stress of work alone forces them to be fully medicated the rest of their lives.... though those in that situation also learn quickly that they must manage more effectively and change their daily lifestyle patterns to release the daily work stress created.

Medication has a purpose.... that purpose is rarely met though due to physician abuse, negligence and mis-information.

[Anonymoose]

I can relate. I took Zoloft for about five months and then stopped. I've been off for about six weeks now and I'm not sure that I don't feel better than I did before. I'm considering a new SSRI or SNRI but I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble. My next choices would be Effexor XR or Prozac. Anyone have a suggestion?

[anthony]

You cannot be recommended medication, you must trial and error them yourself.

[becvan]

Bec, my most prevalent symptoms are the one you mentioned - anxiety, rage and hypervigilance - yes, I suffer from depression, but it is mild in comparison to the symptoms I just listed. Could you tell me what med you are on? If you don't feel comfortable listing on here, could you PM me?


It's actually somewhere on here. I'm on Remeron, also called Mirtazapine. It's a dual drug, in that it's supposed to treat both depression and anxiety. That's not to say it will work for anyone else, the same as it does for me. I can't take SSRI's without having seizures, where as many others can. I just got damn lucky with this, as it was the last drug they could try. I was out of options and damned if it didn't work.

Also a note to people. Finding the right medication can take years.. not weeks or months.. so if your going down this road be prepared for the long haul until they find what lessens your symptoms.

bec

[Roo]

Hey Rachel :smile:

Just read your post re: medication and my heart goes out to you. It's a crap-shoot, isn't it...there's so much about the human brain and its workings that remain a mystery.

I'm reminded of my own experiences while reading your words. I, too, have been on the medication merry-go-round (or not!:eek:) ... have been taking an antidepressant (Paxil) since 1996; tried another and became violently ill; take occasional sleep meds. Was once advised by a psychiatrist (whom I saw on a one-time-only assessment basis) to take an antipsychotic. No way!!

It's so hard to know, after being on meds for a time, what's intrinsic to you (PTSD) and what's not (side effects) -- i.e., depression and anxiety; rage; attention disorders. I often wonder who/what I would be without the Paxil, which was miraculous in that it curtailed my own rage in a way that nothing else could. That alone has been a gift. Lifelong phobias seemed to simply dissipate. I remember waking up on the 16th day after I started the medication; I felt an absence -- of the weight of depression. I felt like I'd lost 30 pounds.

On the other hand...my own sexual pleasure has all but croaked; I struggle mightily to feel anything; some of my self-harming behaviours seem to have gone "underground" and are more subtle --> smoking; biting at the inside of my mouth until it bleeds, etc.

I've had to weigh the pros and cons...and overall, I am very glad and relieved to be on this medication. I'm willing to live with the downsides and possible long-term consequences.

I know that doing your best to maintain basic health -- eating well, drinking enough water, sleeping, moving/exercising, keeping your mind and environment as calm as possible -- helps you to see more clearly what might be side effects/drug interactions. It might be an idea to keep a daily log or journal of your symptoms and experiences -- track them over time. With that 30-second attention span that you write about (I share this!!), it might be a good idea to keep a small notebook and pen always handy :wink:

Keep the lines of communication open with your doctor and any other professionals you deal with.

Breathe...deep and long and gentle. Funny how that one simple act can make such a huge difference.

Wishing you clarity and well-being...

Roo :Hug_emoticon:

[linasmom]

Roo - thank you! :Hug_emoticon: It has indeed, been very trying.

I just want to stress again, that I have no expectations of anti-depressants being a miracle drug. I do not however, expect that my anti-depressants create more depression for me when for the majority of my life, my depression has been manageable (with a few exceptions of major depressive episodes).

It seems that the SSRI's just aren't working for me. I am tired though of this process while also going to therapy. My body and mind are being overly taxed.

Best,
Rachel

[Roo]

Rachel...keep at it. Your body will tell you what is working and what's not.

I've become (out of necessity!) very adept at tracking even tiny changes in my body-mind. Recently, my doctor and I discussed an increase in my anti-depressant med; I agreed to this, and three weeks into the change I am noticing a definite lightening of mood.

I know, too, that the medication is but one tool in my repertoire...the "miraculous" aspect that I wrote of earlier applied to one specific symptom -- uncontrollable rage -- and I don't view the medication as a panacea that wipes out all trouble...If anything, I have to be even more mindful and work very closely with my thoughts, especially...

It's a risk...a crap-shoot...the best of medical professionals admit that they don't entirely know what makes SSRIs work (or not). The brain is such a mystery, but every other bodily system is so intimately connected with the brain that everything else can be affected...

Definitely the meds should not be making you feel more depressed! That, unfortunately, is what's known as a "paradoxical effect" --> the medication actually increases the symptom(s) that it's supposed to reduce.

It may be a time now, coinciding with Spring (oh thank Creation that it's finally here!), for you to detox your body and get clear in body and mind...then take the next step, whatever that will be. Just keep at it...you are finding your way...

In my best moments, I think of symptoms as wisdom...as messages that I must pay attention to. Keep listening in, and you will find a clear passage.

My thoughts are with you...:Hug_emoticon:

Roo

[upstream]

It is a temporary solution to enable you to work effectively through your trauma.


I respectfully disagree about the drugs being temporary. Let's re-examine nic's post:


While Paxil can work, be CAREFUL on this medication. I had a VERY hard time when I tried to stop taking it even though I went off of it very slowly.

My brother had the same reaction to this drug. I also have read news stories about individuals who have emotional breakdowns when attempting to go off these drugs.

Gwen Olsen (former sales rep) raises a valid concern. If you start taking these drugs, you may become a life long customer for the pharmaceutical industry. You may also have to deal with some very serious side effects. I started another thread on this:
http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread7290.html

[moog]

It's actually somewhere on here. I'm on Remeron, also called Mirtazapine. It's a dual drug, in that it's supposed to treat both depression and anxiety. That's not to say it will work for anyone else, the same as it does for me. I can't take SSRI's without having seizures, where as many others can. I just got damn lucky with this, as it was the last drug they could try. I was out of options and damned if it didn't work.

Also a note to people. Finding the right medication can take years.. not weeks or months.. so if your going down this road be prepared for the long haul until they find what lessens your symptoms.

bec

I started taking Remeron about 3 weeks ago and I am not sure if the sedative nature is quite right for me. The Psychiatrist picked it because sleep is a major issue for me (night terrors, frequent disturbances) and there was worries of possible seizures but I am finding it's to much. Unless the alarm is set or something wakes me, I could probably sleep the day away. I'm going to give it more time to see how my body adjusts to it but if it continues I will be asking for something else.