An Editorial Response to Anthony

[Grama-Herc]

Logged on this morning to find a thread started by our leader. The more I read, the more insulted I became. Why you ask? Well, let me enlighten you.

Sympathy was his issue. It is also mine! What in the hell is so wrong with giving someone a little sympathy. A little can go a long way in helping someone deal with issues "other" than their PTSD.

We do after all have a section where we can talk about anything we want. The title says we can "Chat-General".

I went through hard times late last year. To know that the people in this forum actually cared about me and the pain I was going through was a huge help to me. I did not feel so terribly alone.

The problems I had were not earth shaking, but they were,just the same, problems. The ability to share a bad day of "Oh, why me" once in a while helps whether Anthony thinks so or not.

To know that someone out there cares, well, it matters. To receive an occassional "I am so sorry to hear this is happening to you" means you are still part of the world!

While this disertation on sympathy from Anthony was not personally meant for me, I feel insulted! Not guilty Not ashamed Not upset Not angry but "Insulted" yes.

The direction his opinion took was a negative one and IMHO unnecessary to be discussed at all. If he has an issue with a particular person who is in a place of seeking extreme sympathy then PM that person and handle it privately.

We are all adults here and SHOULD be able to act and react in an appropriate manner. I don't think showing a little sympathy to someone in pain is inappropriate.

I respect Anthony's right to his opinion, therefore; he should respect mine. Anyone else want to chime in on this?

[nic]

Well-stated, Grama-Herc!

[Lucky Laser]

I fully agree that we need to indulge in sympathy sometimes. Its impossible to be positive or empowered 100% of the time. Sometimes there's nothing better than a big ol' "DA**! THAT SUCKS!" :p

I could be mistaken but I think (at least from looking at his subsequent posts in that thread) he was just trying to say not to let it get out of control as a "trend" kind of thing to where it sets us (and new members) all up for going backwards or getting the wrong idea about what this forum is for?

[Seeking_Nirvana]

I think empathy and sympathy are being confused here. Empathy is fine and I think that is what Anthony stated and I haven't noticed either of you seeking sympathy, but empathy.

If you want sympathy I think he said it is OK once in awhile but if it's ongoing then one stays stuck and doesn't move forward in their healing.

Personally, I think sympathy-seeking keeps me in "victim mode" I refuse to be there. Empathy is understanding me and giving advice and that helps me move forward.

My 2 cents
Tammy

[She Cat]

Herc,


We all want sympathy at times. Shit I am guilty of this too. It just doesn't work in the long run. The effect that you get from the sympathy only last for awhile, and then you are looking for more. What happens is that you get your fix from this feeling and need more and more. You never heal. You just get needier and needier.

Some people can't get out of that rut, and they just become emotional leaches. They stay a victim as Tammy put it.

Empathy is saying that you care about their situation, but you give advice, or offer a way for them to move forward. JMO!!!!

[linasmom]

I just want to add as well..that empathy also means simply listening and being present- sympathy (at least to me) is when you start pandering to a person in order to give them a false sense of hope.

[anthony]

I think you got your answers Herc... Tammy said is best to what I would say. Thanks Tammy.... big big difference between sympathy and empathy, and the outcome for PTSD is significant between them. As Tammy stated, if you read the thread entirely you will find exactly what Tammy eluded, in that the sympathy has a time and place, that is not daily and not every time a person has something to pity. Empathy is the best choice to be given, not sympathy. Sympathy has a limited scope in life period, not just with PTSD. The problem with PTSD though is that people fall into a depressive state and they want encouragement to remain in that state, which is what sympathy does. Empathy does not achieve that, instead it helps bring a person out of the depressive state and into action for themselves.

Your opinion is valid, I do not disagree, but maybe you might want to go back and read that thread in its entirety and not pick out one small line or two, but instead piece everything together in its entirety to then be judged.

I am not saying for people to not want sympathy, but I can say I will not tolerate it being done here in abundance. If people want to make themselves worse, their choice, but I get to choose whether I allow it to go on here. I will moderate a person every time for excessive actions because it does no sufferer any good for such exposure. There are a myriad of PTSD forums that allow all that crap, and as adults people are free to visit those other forums and garnish all the sympathy they want, just not here is the rule.

[Awakening]

Well I interpreted it as more how we respond to each other. As in don't just give sympathy, challenge the person. A bit like your thread Herc about why don't you talk to your therapist - it was a great thread.

So an example "I can't tell my therapist anything, I'm too scared"

Imagine if everyone came back with;

"Oh Awakening that sucks that your feeling scared"
"Poor Awakening, she's having a hard time"
"Awakening I'm so sorry you can't tell your therapist anything"

I mean those comments would feel supportive but not really help me to change. And it's not that I may have been manipulatively seeking sympathy or those responding deliberately giving it - more like a pattern.

And there are forums which are just like that - back and forth of - 'you poor thing, do you need some hugs?' etc.

I think in the example above you don't have to swing the other extreme, you could post something like.

"Awakening, I'm sorry you are struggling right now. But which is it really - Is it you 'can't' tell your therapist or you 'won't' tell your therapist.".

"Awakening, I know fear is a big factor of PTSD, but you are never going to heal if you don't start facing your fears. What exactly is this fear about, what is the worst that can happen by telling your therapist?"

"Awakening, I too use to find this difficult. But you need to push past your fear. How I overcame this fear was; telling my therapist I had something to tell her but was scared; writing it down & handing it over etc"

Anyway that's my interpretation.

[anthony]

Awakening.... have some reputation love for such a well written and stated post. I think that just made us all a little smarter to be perfectly honest.

[grace5555]

I will throw my 2 cents in here - I believe there is a well-deserved place for sympathy, yes, sympathy, as well as empathy in each of our lives filled with PTSD hell. As with every emotion, vice, habit, etc., things done in excess are usually detrimental but I will not believe that offering sympathy to someone in pain is hurtful to them and encouraging them to remain a victim. They are a victim and as such, deserve understanding and compassion (sympathy) from those who are strong enough to offer such at the time.

As Nic spoke of, I am very, very hesitant to express pain and problems on here as I never know when the result will be an attack at my motives for posting of such a problem because I am "looking for sympathy".

Yeah, Anthony - you have every right to run this forum as you see fit because it is your forum as you keep reminding us, but that does not mean you are right. The continual "kick-in-the-ass" mentality is detrimental to many in my opinion. Although the symptoms of PTSD are pretty uniform, the solutions are not because we as people are very unique and some traumas can be very unique. What may be the end-all solution for one, may not work for another and that does not mean that one doesn't want or isn't trying to get better. Sympathy and empathy have a very healing place in my life - may not be healing to another but it brings healing to me and who is anyone to say it doesn't if they aren't involved in my life, therapy, and treatment?

[grace5555]

Awakening...I find your statements at the end of your post to be an accusatory and condemning way to challenge. I know some may find those kind of replies helpful, but personally speaking, I would find that hurtful and detrimental - just my opinion. Guess I am grateful to have those in my life who can and will challenge me and encourage me without things that will come across to me as accusations and condemnations.

[anthony]

Grace, what you say is very valid, however; the aspect about my method of running this forum is based on what I know works. What another forum owner bases their forum upon is what they know works for them. This is why no one forum exists, nor is any one forum right. I do not say other PTSD forums are wrong and this one is right, instead I say to people that this forum is wrong for them if they want x, y and z from here, when this forum is not structured that way. I would simply refer a person who wants sympathy in excess with PTSD to go to another forum who works on the opposite spectrum of this forum, being lots of sympathy and blowing smoke up one anothers arse. Not here... elsewhere. Simple as that.

I am not dismissing peoples opinion, far from it. I am saying that this forum is not right for everyone, nor is another forum right for everyone. Find your forum that suits you best and if it works for you, stick with it. If not, change. This forum is about kicking people in the arse with a requisite amount of empathy and experience to share, to get sufferers out of denial and into action for their own health and well-being.

I DO NOT EXPRESS THIS FORUM IS FOR EVERYONE, NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. If you want sympathy in excess, then don't be here. Wanting sympathy has nothing to do with sharing your experience though, as you elude above Grace. If you are scared to write something here, then your scared period to share it.... and it sounds to me as you using this as an excuse to justify your action. Choice....

[grace5555]

See it however you want, Anthony...it is not an excuse on my part to justify anything. Maybe you are justifying your harshness? I do not need to justify what I share or why - I just stated a reason as to why I hesitate at times. And just because ass-kicking works for one it doesn't mean that that is the answer to PTSD for all. Everyone does not need a kick in the butt to get out of denial and work for their own healing.

[anthony]

Correct, again, everyone doesn't. There are forums that will hold your hand and give you lots of sympathy.... though little effect is usually obtained, it does work for a few which is a great result. What is your point Grace? It will not change my way of running this forum though.... many have tried, and only the very few have made a point of something to satisfy me to change some things from what is this forums standard operating practice. New members come and go, people come here trying to change the forum... it will not work... end of discussion.

I agree with your statements about this forums methods not working for everyone, again, what are you missing about my words though surrounding that this forum is just not for everyone? Its not... nothing to hide. You choose to be here or not. Make your choice, and if any member remains here then sympathy is not catered beyond minor doses.

[grace5555]

Not even worth trying to explain...I will enjoy the healing, encouragement and friends I have here and leave the rest...

[Awakening]

Awakening...I find your statements at the end of your post to be an accusatory and condemning way to challenge. I know some may find those kind of replies helpful, but personally speaking, I would find that hurtful and detrimental - just my opinion.

Really? I'm quite surprised as I thought my examples were fairly well balanced blend between empathy/sympathy but also a challenge. Whether you took the challenge or answered the question or not, would of course be entirely up to you, you never have to answer. You can say thanks but no thanks or don't go there or whatever you want.

I guess your post just concerns me a bit because if someone posts a thread I'm assuming they want advice/help & feedback. I would be empathetic in my post but I'd assume by the very nature that they started the thread that it was okay to post.

It worries me that you say that you find my examples hurtful & detrimental, as I'd never ever want to cause that, so would probably chose just not to respond.

I don't know I guess I'm just not seeing what others are seeing in Anthony's post. I'm seeing him say sympathy, empathy is fine just make sure that's not what this forum develops into. Let's not make it all about empathy. He said it's 'creeping' back in here, not that it has become like that or that's it's wrong to desire it or give it.

I do however understand your point about being unique and the kick up the arse. Totally. And people have to respect your boundaries. Sometimes someone being harsh on me just has the opposite affect and makes me shutdown further rather then someone who mixes in a bit of empathy with some toughness.

There is nothing wrong with empathy or sympathy or wanting it, I mean we are human. But in the long term if all you got was this and nothing else I don't know if that would heal you on it's own.

[anthony]

Awakening, personally I see nothing wrong with your post either. I see nothing wrong with Hercs post beginning this topic, it was an issue for her which needed answering. Do not shift yourself from what you know and feel is right for you.

[grace5555]

Awakening...perhaps my wording was too strong. What I personally might find harmful are the parts where you would say "You will never begin to heal unless", or "can't versus won't" etc. and while the belief behind the words may be true, it would just be the language. It is quite possible that I can't do something versus won't but you are judging that I am choosing not too when I may be unable to. But since you don't know me, you wouldn't know phrasing in such ways would be hurtful and I would do as I have done since joining the forum...just let it pass on by without taking offense. As I stated, it is me personally that would have a hard time with this kind of terminology while others would find it highly helpful. I try to be very, very careful in how I word things to others but I wasn't so careful in my response to you and I apologize.

[Nicolette]

I think there must be a blue moon out or the planets are out of alignment or people are suffering from something strange as there is a lot of aggression/tension on the forum let alone anyone wanting sympathy :wink:

Perhaps a deep breath, a fresh perspective or a good night's sleep is in order as some are overly sensitive of late.

I am not making fun of anyone, I am trying to make light as someone needs to break the tension around here. A good laugh is really healthy :rofl::rofl:

[pandora]

I agree with Nicolette..as i was reading his thread i just kept thinking....why can't we just try to heal while helping others heal....I have been here a year now and would be lost without the support I get in what ever way anyone wants to describe it within their own personal misery and challenges while mosttly trying to just make a positive difference in a persons life.........or at least make them smile or rethink things if only for a bit.

[veiled]

OK, it has been a couple months since even peeking here but I only grazed this topic... Grace what you posted made much sense, OK, total sense. I think we do need a fair bit of softness in with all the harshness that is typical. It all goes hand in hand but will be fair enough to say I do not know the latest underlying topic is bringing this to surface. But I must say things are pretty reptitive as I feel like I came in exactly where I left off.

Will I stay? Dunno... Been busy in a good way.

[Auburngirl]

This is an interesting thread. I don't see myself as seeking sympathy. I'm not that interested in being a victim. But this also isn't where I'm seeking to work through trauma and be pushed- that's what I'm seeing a psychiatrist for. This forum for me is for support and information.

What bothers me more is not whether sympathy is good or bad, but that there seems to be the idea that a) some emotions are wrong and b) that there is only one way to get better. I think it's important to have some ideological diversity here- not everyone needs or benefits from the same thing. We don't all need to agreed on the 'right way' to get better or the 'right way' to post (though some limits are likely necessary here).

I, for one, find the references to PTSD as a lifelong sentence to be discouraging, for example, and being pushed and prodded here might make me worse (as I'd just be constantly dissociating). And, for those reasons, I avoid those threads and topics. We've all got to find our own way of seeking what we need and offering what we can. The forum can fill gaps in our real life treatment or support networks, but those gaps are going to vary person by person.

[becvan]

Well, personally, I can't stand the sympathy. I don't like it directed towards me.. and stay the hell out of sympathy threads.

Sympathy makes me highly uncomfortable. I don't want nor need pity. Empathy I would take any day of the week.

Now there are many definitions of sympathy.. I believe the one being discussed here is: "noun" a feeling of pity or sorrow for a person in trouble. When this particular brand of sympathy starts to run rampant.. all encouragement to problem solve, resolve issues, and have personal responsibility for ones state of mind (this is within reason with ptsd.. here) goes out the window. It then becomes just a poor you.. poor me attitude that goes into a never ending circle that drags everyone down.

That's my take on it.

[spiritofnow]

Hmmmmm!

Some honesty from me!

When I saw the thread it looked and seemed bolder and brighter than any of the other threads on the whole of that page. It stood so far out that it was almost waving a flag at me. And here is the honesty, it felt like a red flag to a bull, and I wanted to dig my hooves in and charge at that reg flag as defiantly as I could. I wanted to charge it down and deny it's (the threads), intentions!

However, I mentally and emotinally stood back and waited to assimilate my feelings ( I feel first think much later), now I am self aware concerning this I try to be adult and stand back first!

I pondered! Why did that thread wave a red flag at me?......And my honest answer is because it was a trigger. It triggered the negative internal chatter I have about myself. You know, I am pathetic, stupid, on the pitty pot, all the feelings associated with self-pity and my own self-hatred. So that thread was tapping into my negative thought patterns, and it was as if it was only addressed to me, rather than the whole forum. As if Anthony was only addressing me - I am sure others' have felt the same, it's part of our negative thinking right?

Today, I can see what Anthony is suggesting. However, I guess the complexities that we all have in every day life concerning communicating our thoughts and ideas are that although many of us use the same words we can speak a different language. I mean, words are emotive aren't they? Some words we identify with, and others' we don't some are like a red flag to a bull! And I guess that recognising this is Okay!

At the end of the day if we are all brutally honest of course we want sympathy, it is part of feeling validated; feeling like the pain that you have suffered is real and is as terrible as it feels at times. We may also shun from sympathy because it again taps into our negative thought patterns concerning ourselves. Receiving sympathy can reinforce the negative chatter we hold concerning who we are and how we are dealing with our pain.

So if we accept that by merely being here on the forum we are all highlighting that we have sympathy for ourselves and each other.
The key part of this, I feel, is that we have to be constructive with our sympathy. We have to use each other as a sounding board to bounce ideas off concerning how we can combat how we are feeling rather than just validating each others' pain. Don't we validate the pain of each person we respond to by answering their posts and trying to give them a different perspective anyway?

The forum is made up of many ingerdients, empathy, insight, compassion, understanding, support, knoweldge and all of these come with a pinch of sympathy, I guess a little to much of this ingredient and the whole thing will be spolied.

Spirit x

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Hi Bec, glad to see you back and posting. Most of your comments have always resonated with me and make sense. I liked how you challenged everyone (not at first LOL but after I realized the point in it)

Thanks for the help you have given me when I first started out here.

Take care
Tammy

[Seeking_Nirvana]

"I pondered! Why did that thread wave a red flag at me?......And my honest answer is because it was a trigger. It triggered the negative internal chatter I have about myself. You know, I am pathetic, stupid, on the pitty pot, all the feelings associated with self-pity and my own self-hatred. So that thread was tapping into my negative thought patterns, and it was as if it was only addressed to me, rather than the whole forum. As if Anthony was only addressing me - I am sure others' have felt the same, it's part of our negative thinking right?"

****I think when some one posts something we all wonder if it is aimed at us. LOL It's really hard to figure that out some times. Initially, I didn't think he was referring to me, but I had a few people in mind. However I could be wrong.

"At the end of the day if we are all brutally honest of course we want sympathy, it is part of feeling validated; feeling like the pain that you have suffered is real and is as terrible as it feels at times. We may also shun from sympathy because it again taps into our negative thought patterns concerning ourselves. Receiving sympathy can reinforce the negative chatter we hold concerning who we are and how we are dealing with our pain."

****I may be in denial and will think further about what you stated. But I really feel I don't want sympathy at the end of the day. The word makes me feel nauseous. I suppose if my children or husband were to pass away I would want sympathy then, but other than that I can't see myself wanting it now or at the end of the day. It just doesn't resonate with me. But I'm going to do a self-inventory on this just to make sure I'm not in denial.

The forum is made up of many ingerdients, empathy, insight, compassion, understanding, support, knoweldge and all of these come with a pinch of sympathy, I guess a little to much of this ingredient and the whole thing will be spolied.

***I agree with you here. This makes a lot of sense.


Tammy
Lord have mercy I still do not know how to use the quote option to reply to only certain things in a post. Some one who has time, please PM me and help me figure this out.

[2quilt]

Yes, Welcome back, Becvan!
I missed you!

[becvan]

We may also shun from sympathy because it again taps into our negative thought patterns concerning ourselves. Receiving sympathy can reinforce the negative chatter we hold concerning who we are and how we are dealing with our pain.
Spirit x

Spirit.. I liked this.. and I'm quite impressed you picked up on it! Sympathy is a very negative thing to me.. My mother was a sympathy seeker and I just despise this reaction, behavior and emotion because of it. Hence why I stay out of those threads.. lol me going all rabid on some poor soul because it triggers me is so not right! :eek: However I do firmly believe that not everyone secretly wants it. If I were healthier, I would still not want it. It's just not the person I am. And, let's face it, I'm not that unique! LMAO....


NS & 2Quilt: thanks so much for the welcome back! I missed you guys too! :)

bec

[Grama-Herc]

Guess I got the natives somewhat stirred up. I was a little irritated when I started this topic and I am in the same shape now. This of course is no ones fault but mine and I need to own my attitude/

I am however very glad to see Veiled and Becvan back with us. I have missed their input. I hope to see them participating in other areas.

[Grama-Herc]

I just re read my orginal post on this topic and I think many of you got the wrong idea about the actual subject of this.

Yes, sympathy is the subject, BUT, I was intending for this to be directed toward the idea that giving sympathy that you dog died, or your car broke down , or you gave your cat away! Things like that

I in no way meant that we needed to do the Oh you poor soul, you are having a bad attack today. Of course an occassional dose of that could not hurt either.

It is MHO that there are differences in the intensity of our various conditions because of their causes. I may react completely different that a war stress soldier even though we both have PTSD. So herefore should we not be looked at and handled in a slightly different manor. Not to mention the simple fact of everyone responds differently.

I just think the thread that Anthony wrote was way to harsh. It would have helped had he had just a little more tact in his writing.

Well, so much for my 5 cents worth of &^%$

[Nicolette]

Sounds like back-tracking to me!

Maybe instead of Anthony being too harsh you are being too sensitive??

Isn't the forum about helping yourself and discussing issues to learn others experiences and points of view rather than arguing about semantics?

[grace5555]

Good grief, Nicolette - didn't sound a bit like backtracking to me but rather clarification of her point as we have been told to be very careful and do. Perhaps you are too sensitive to Anthony being criticized? Just wondering...

[Nicolette]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Grace.

[Cowgirl]

Honestly, I prefer a site like this one where people post divergent views so that one can see their situation from a variety of viewpoints. It would be utterly useless to me if people only posted "Oh, gee, I'm so very sorry for your awful situation!" I've seen sites like that, and I don't stick around.

[anthony]

Cowgirl, I do agree with diverse and this site does achieve this.... and your point is exactly why I make mention of sympathy several times a year. People come here that are new, they don't go through all the old posts, so some topics are raised every so often during a year to rectify issues as they rearrise, which they do time and time again on a forum.... not just this forum, most forums.

If I didn't bring sympathy back in check as it got out of hand here, then what you mention is exactly what we would end up with.... a bunch of even newer members all thinking its acceptable to pity one another and live in self loathing. No problem with people wanting to do that, go for it, I just do not allow it here which I have every right to do. Forums run on rules, each and every one of them, and you hit it on the head with there being plenty around that cater the sympathetic bullshit some so want from here. Won't happen here.... sympathy is something given rarely, NEEDED rarely, though often people become sympathetic before empathetic. Empathy even has boundaries, in that people with PTSD need to be challenged during their trauma therapy time in order to look inwards. Without these very basics and the foundation of this forum, we would just be another one of those forums that achieve little, market on numbers, and how sympathetic and full of shit we can be.

Not for me.... This forum sits inbetween the hard arse military forums telling one another to "get over it" and the sympathetic forums drooling in each others drivel and self pity.... a little of each is a good mix, along with lots of commonsense, experience and facts. The more of those three are released into this community, the smarter and better we all become, not more depressed by being rewarded or acknowledged as a pity pot.

[spiritofnow]

I think this word 'sympathy' has many social and cultural perceptions that direct how we relate to it. Perhaps, we see sympathy as a weakness? Sympathy implies that someone is soft stroking you, you know the, 'their, their' attitude 'you will be Okay' or ' you poor thing' attititude or even, 'please give me sympathy because I am weak'?

Perhaps, sympathy is hard to swallow when it comes to PTSD and the trauma(s) that have caused it? Perhaps, having sympathy over being physically, sexually and verbally abused for example makes us feel uncomfortable because of the nature of the trauma(s).

I guess to sympathise as it sounds better, it takes the onus away from the person who is feeling terrible and places it onto others in order for them to try to understand rather than the injured party feeling pitied?

Just my ideas.

I think it is very interesting how some words are acceptable in terms of what they facilitate and some are not becuase of the social and cultural labels we are conditioned to think of them in. Words can create our reality.

Spirit x

[Cindy]

To all:

My initial reaction to all posts involving this topic in both threads was to totally agree with Anthony. I still do. I see the other points by others about needing a little sympathy here and there, that's OK in my book. But I got it clearly, the reference was to repeat offenders, not occasional posts.

I have not seen other forums so do not have anything to compare with, but this is my place. It is what I have always desired on my journey to have others understand my struggles and share their experiences to enlighten my own.

I have to also say, the initial post did make me evaluate my posts and consider if they were sympathetic or empathetic. I think I tend to always empathize.

I also want to add, I am very sensitive on this topic because my daughter has accused me often of seeking sympathy and stated to just move on with my life. She does not understand or choose to understand what it is like to live this way. So, I immediately react to being called a sympathy seeker. It is defensive on my part; mixed in with the lack of validation.

I also want to recognize the tension I have been observing as very disturbing. I do not handle conflict well. I know this and try not to jump in and fix everything. Sometimes I think we all need to agree to disagree. Not everything on a public forum will be about us because there is a wide variety of people and their experiences. Personally, I respond to threads that I have positive input for and that touch me personally in my own path.

I also often reflect on contributers to this site as we are all doing the best we can on any given day. Obviously, some days are better than others. The opportunity to share with each other is a gift I will never be able to repay for the worth I have of the friends and support I feel when reading and contributing.

[spiritofnow]

Cr*p! I just got the thought I was trying to communicate!

Sympathy is difficult when we have suffered trauma that makes us feel, guilty, causes us to question whether we are responsible for what happened, causes us to dislike ourselves, causes us to shun help, causes us to feel all of the dysfunctional things we can have and do!

Why is sympathy Okay for losing someone (death and grieiving), but not Okay for grieving over past events that have facilitated our struggles?

I am not saying I agree with giving sympathy by itself - I am just asking why we feel it is appropriate in some situations and not in others'. I get the whole tough love stuff! But why do we as sufferes have such a bad time with that word?

I think it is a mixture of what I already outlined and also what our trauma(s) are and were.

Spirit x

[anthony]

Well said Cindy.... your observation is absolutely accurate. This is about bringing wide spread sympathy giving, wanting, into check so that it is only apparent for what it should be used for..... small and limited scope. Death usually warrants sympathy.... enduring trauma at that exact time, often warrants sympathy, neither though require ongoing sympathy because an event happened, instead it now becomes a hinderance to the brain and emotional ability of a person if allowed to be ongoing for any traumatic event within life. Near every person here has "past" trauma, that means sympathy is not required here unless something traumatic occurs to you whilst here, being the day or day around an event. It doesn't keep going for a week, two or a month.... its not healthy to want it or be given it for those durations. Once it is given sympathy has completed its natural course. Everything after that you need to begin resolution, action, doing stages.... the sympathy stage is completed and done.

People continue it because it is a stage of trauma that brings attention in a way a person can be awarded to feel sorry for themselves, as though they are all hard done by over and over. Not the case. Every human endures trauma in life, you cannot get over it, but you cannot get past it or through it if you continue the sympathetic stage of trauma beyond the event itself / day or two afterwards.

Very well said Cindy....

[anthony]

The facts with topics such as this, is people like Herc disagree with something I say. Disagreement is fine, but instead of just disagreeing they then post a thread like this to see whether they will get a majority supporting them, often such things will not and it has nothing to do with me. The reason a majority typically opposes is because they exert exactly what this forum is not about, sympathy. Herc posted this to see if she could get sympathy, see if she could get change. It didn't happen and it won't happen.

I couldn't care if a majority came here and screamed they wanted sympathy to be allowed, I would simply moderate all those members and the forum would continue on. Why? Because other forums cater such things, I do not want this forum to head in such a direction, hence why I keep such a tight control on such destructive things as sympathy.

Rules are rules, policy is policy. Policy and rules don't change just because a majority say so.... they only change if I feel the change would benefit the demographics that I want into this forum.... that is those who want to get on with healing and are ready or near ready to get into the action stages of healing. This forum is not available to those who just want sympathy.... I will moderate or ban such members without question after warning such, as you can go elsewhere to freely and openly get it.

People have a choice, so instead of trying to invoke more sympathy here, attempt to get change or make me feel bad, instead members should just get on with healing and working on themselves, learning what works best for them and get on with doing, instead of trying to control this forum or place their stamp of control upon it. I am fully aware of all the manipulative techniques and tactics those with PTSD try, I have it after all.

How about members cease trying to control the forum or get sympathy for control, and get on with doing for their own PTSD which clearly outlines here through such posts that self esteem is shot to shit and needs work, there is trauma undealt that some want sympathy for to use as an excuse so they can justify not facing it or doing anything about it. I pull no punches with all this....

[Jim]

Believe some here may be thinking, sympathy = love, caring. Not in my books. I care for my daughter with PTSD and love her more than my own life. However. She gets zero sympathy from myself. And I mean zero. And. She is doing splendidly well. Fact is in my humble opinion - sympathy would have hindered her progress, on and off this forum. Jim.

[grace5555]

Anthony, I find it very interesting to watch you attack people who challenge you. This has happened quite a few times since I have been here and does not fit with what you state the forum is about. It is sad to see you so insecure with being challenged on various topics that you try to degrade the people criticizing you. Guess it was unrealistic to expect something different from a leader who himself has PTSD. For example, Jim very obviously agrees with you but he doesn't use his opinion to put down someone else. I can debate and be challenged with those who disagree with me in that manner, but I can't and won't give weight to people who attack personally like you have done time and time again.

[anthony]

Grace, I'm far from attacking, I am simply stating the rules and policies of this forum. You are another who feel you have a right to come here and challenge me about the rules. The forum is free, what is your point? You come here, I didn't come to you. This is not attacking, far from it, but laying down that I do get sick to death of the same people attempting to challenge rules and policies which the forum engage.

If you don't like the rule Grace, please leave the forum. Simple... isn't it. Otherwise, cease trying to challenge them and disagree with them, and just get on with healing your trauma and working on your PTSD. You come across to me as another who wants to live in conflict.... you have chased it around the forum actually from my own observation. This is not attacking you Grace, its outlining my opinion of watching your posting history. You challenge everything because you seem to believe you have some right to do so here. You have the right to challenge PTSD aspects, you DO NOT have the right to challenge the very rules and policies of this forum.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM, LEAVE THE FORUM IMMEDIATELY AS PER THE LEGAL AGREEMENT STATES.

I am closing this thread as it bears little issue to general chat.