Coming to Terms With my Trauma

[cypher]

I was reading in another threat you need to come to terms with the things that have happened. How? I am guilty and only have myself to blame. I should have seen the warning signs and done something. I am at fault for the things that happened. Thats how I see it. What have you done to come to terms with what happened? I see a T once a week, she had me wright out what happened and read it to her. It was horrible and I threw up 3 times at work after that. I don't see myself as letting go.
Any advice?

[upstream]

I felt the same for a while with my last boss, he is an emotional abuser and I'm told he is a psychopath. What helped initially was reading a book about what I went through. The book showed that people in my situation rationalize the signs away, and that I was being deliberately deceived to mask his abusive and manipulative actions.

I'm not sure what you experienced, but perhaps there's some literature on it that would help you understand it better.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Hi Cypher, I don't understand how it's your fault if you didn't see it coming. Who thinks you should have seen it coming or the warning signs.

If I seen everything that was coming my way I would be inhuman. I'm sorry maybe you could explain in more detail how you could have seen the warning signs so I can figure out what you are saying?

Tammy

[Murphy's Law]

I read this in another thread, but I cant find it now. Basically, you cant change what has happened, no matter how you beat your self up. How it could be your fault, I dont understand, but if it is your reaction your regretting, remember you are human and will sometimes react poorly. What would you do differently? Is there a way to do something now that would make a positive change in your life? For example, and I know this is simplistic so forgive me, but say you littered yesterday and felt bad. You could go pick up litter for your community.
If it is nothing you could have changed or done differently, and it is in the past, you might just have to accept it for what it was. Yes we all have responsibilty in our actions, but if you did nothing to cause it, there might not be anythingg you can do to change or better it. Have you told your T about the guilt you feel is yours? Not just what happened (I feel for your reaction to talking about it), but your taking the guilt as yours?

[cypher]

Thats a good idea, Ill see if there's a book or something, ask T.

I think I'm the one who should have seen it coming therefore it's all my fault. I did nothing to prevent the things that happened, I didnt see it coming, but had some warning signs. I did'nt know it would escalate to the extreme it did.

Yeah, last week my T had me read to her what happened and it sucked bad. She does know I feel guilty/responsible for what happened. She tried to tell me how I was'nt, but I did'nt listen very well. I think somewhere deep in me I know there was nothing I could do, but don't accept it. I don't think I could have done anything diffrently but be more aware or looke more closely at things - but there's no way I could have known. Can't accept it though.

Thanks for the posts

[anthony]

Cyper, lets use you as an example for others shall we? Tell me, what is your trauma and how is that trauma your fault in your eyes?

[cypher]

It's many things that happened over the past 6 or 7 months. I'm not sure about what to say w/o going into to much detail. If you want to know more that's fine. But long story short, some people came over to stay and at first few days or weeks were somewhat ok, but eventually got worse and worse. I had no idea as to the extreme it would get to. It did'nt just happen the first night they were there, I saw their behavor change over a bit of time and what happened I believe is my own fault. I don't think I'll ever get over that or forgive myself for it.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

I think Anthony wants you to type a detailed description of what happened from start to finish. If not, that is what I was wanting you to do so I can figure out what is going on.

Your comments are too vague. In order for me or anyone else to help you understand this we have to understand what happened, and where your thinking may or may not be flawed, with regard to this trauma being your fault.

Take care
Tammy

[anthony]

Hi Cypher... yes you need to give me the details... I will show you that talking about it by itself will do nothing, and will demonstrate to you and others who need to know what to do with their trauma when written, how to do it and what to look for. This can just be an easy learning guide for you and others if you like, but I do need to know details in order to help you and others in how to achieve the end aim.

[cypher]

can i put it in the trauma diary private or members section, i'm not very comfortable with all that went on.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

It's up to you.

Good luck
Tammy

[Murphy's Law]

I understand too. The anonymity is what I like about this place. But if you can, remember everyone here is or has been in a place similar to you. They are very kind. And if you cant, then remember we understand that too. there are many steps in this journey, you will know if you can or not.

in case you havent found it yet, there is a chat room for PTSD only. Go to forum and chats and there is one there that is private. bad directions sorry.

I dont know how the diary's work or if they are private, but they are there.

[anthony]

Hi Cypher... yes you can start a diary, but if you do that privately then I cannot use it as an example, as others cannot see it. If you want to do this publicly, I can help you here and now... though a diary is a different kettle of fish. Sorry, I just have limited time that is all. I do not have the time to take on anyone else privately at present....

Again, please do not feel pressured though. If your not comfortable doing this publicly, then please do not and we'll just end this now. If you are, then do so at a level you are comfortable with.

If you want to do this here and now, tell me what your most significant traumatic aspect is, how that makes you feel, and we can start at that.

[cypher]

OK, well I'm not comfortable at all talking about this, but it helps, yeah? So my mom and her boyfriend show up at my door one day drugged up and smell of alcohol. It was my mom (I was adopted, so not my adoptive mom) and I wanted to help her out so I let them in to stay. At first they were behaving alright I guess, then they both started to verbally say things I didnt like. They became very contrilling moneywise, time wise and every other ___wise. I should have seen that as a warning, but I would have never thought how far it would jump. THings escelated a bit, being physically abusive now. I should have done something. One day I came home late from work and they were pissed off, extremely upset. I dont know why, maybe it was the drugs or something happened before I got home from work? But the next thing I know I'm tied down naked and have a huge spider crawling on me (the really big ones ((the T word)) ive been sooooooo scared of my whole life and can't even bring myself to type it out ahhhh) It worked it's way up to my face/mouth and when it got close to my mouth, they plugged my nose so I had to breath through my mouth and it kinda crawled in my mouth. They held my head so I could'nt shake it off/out. I threw up and that got it away for a bit. They were laughing and sexually excited by it. They were watching porn and started looking up other things on the internet like crimes aginst humanity and war crimes, torture stuff like that. They found all kinds of pictures of people killed in various manners. Made me look at it with a gun. One had a gun and took out 5 bullets and put it in my mouth and pulled the trigger 3 times. Then spinned the cylander again and put it elsewhere and pulled the trigger 2 or 3 more times. My toenaile were painted by my neice at a family reunion we had not long before this and they ripped them off with vise grips. The pain I was in sexually excited them to no ends. They raped me and pissed on me. My shoulder was dislocated somehow among other things. Alot of other things happened that night and later the following 2 months. But for now, I'm stopping. It's all my fault this happened, I had signs and did nothing.

[Murphy's Law]

oh cypher, not your fault. Not your fault at all. How in any part of your mind could you have known that was going to happen. How could you have been in anything but shock. It must be physically exhausting just to talk about.
You are very brave and strong. And you are safe.
Thank you for sharing. You rock.
I am curious, and I hope you dont mind me asking. now that you have talked about it, and see that you are still safe, does that help?

[upstream]

That is not your fault. You are not responsible for their cruel actions, nor did you cause them. No one would have seen that coming.

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Oh no Cyper, that is sad. You really did a good job in typing this out after you felt so scared. You should really pat yourself on the back for being strong and able to face this.

I don't see how this could be your fault. As a human being we want to see the best in our parents even when we have clues that something is not right. We tend to deny that there is anything wrong with them when we love them.

I hope you called the police on them and they are in jail.

Hang in there and keep dealing with the pain and you will eventually be able to accept that this was NOT your fault at all.

[cypher]

thanks for your replies!! They all hep! thanks! i guess I'll go on now. That same night(they smoked a lot1 maybe 2 packs a day, I dont know. But after looking at those pictures, they started to put them out on me in the shape of swastikas. Theres 2, both on my right arm one just above my wrist, and the other bigger one is closser to the elbow. Its interesting because the smaller on is healed, the skin is still very fragile, peeing off and such, but the larger one is just a bunch of scabs, evev like it dosetwant to heat. They also put them out on the bottom of my feet, In the same spot over abd over all over my feet, I'm avtually gotten stress fractures from trying to avoid walking on them by walking on the side of my foot. I was choked unconcioes and when

[nic]

Cypher,

What happened to you is awful; it shouldn't have happned; it is NOT your fault. I understand the feelings of guilt, shame, self-blame; I have them, too. However, you did NOT deserve this, and nothing you said or did/didn't do makes this abuse any less wrong.

I have a saying that I used when I did presentations at local schools/colleges during my time as a rape crisis counselor. Here it is:

I could walk into a frat. party, in the middle of the night, piss drunk and completely naked, AND NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO TOUCH ME!

I know how easy it is to obsess over what you should have/could have done, but no matter what, you did not ask for this abuse, and (I can't say this enough), it is NOT your fault. The shame is your abusers' shame; the guilt is their guilt.

That being said, the feelings (of blame and guilt) are normal feelings. When trauma occurs, our minds can't always process it as it should be processed (hence the PTSD). When we place the blame on ourselves, this is a defense mechanism. Think about it: If you think there was something YOU did wrong, then it is easier to say, "Well, if I don't do _____ in the future, I will be safe and free from abuse." This is also why some people try to blame the victim of abuse, as they want to believe that it couldn't happen to them. (Same reasoning: If I don't do _____, then I will be safe.) Unfortunately, that isn't the case. We are all vulnerable as human beings.

I wish you luck on the journey of healing. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Nic

[cypher]

other things happened and i offered to put them up in a hotel ( I disconected all the tvs so they wouldnt/couldnt watchamd hid the cables and called the company to turn it off. they got pissed so i put them up in a hotel for a week. THEy came back after about 2 weeks, it was snowing and cold. I felt bad even after what had happened. They laid a MAJOR guilt trip on me and kinda forced their way in, I avoided them as much as possible, working late, driving around after work for hours, eating out. One day I came home and they were pissed I was gone so long, the duck taped me and tied me up, blindfolded out to some location i didnt know where. They strangled me to the point they thought I was dead, raped me more/ pissed on me. I was bleeding and felt horrible. I heard a river nearby so i trird to clean up the best I could and found a road next to the river, hitchiked to as close to home as I could and walked the rest of the way home. I went to work the next day, I dont know how to explain how i felt?? nobody noticed at work, I didnt want to talk about it anyway. Theres other things I'm missing, but for now that's it. THanks for your posts and support, it meand alot as I'm really struggeling with this, as I'm sure must of you are too. Thankyou.

[Murphy's Law]

I hope you see someday that your only job was to survive. Not to see the future, or know what kind of sick things and people there are out there.
You did it, and are still doing it. Be proud. YOU did not deserve that and it was not your fault.
Hugs

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Cyper, it might be a good idea to get rid of those pictures. I'm still struggling with getting rid of the news paper clippings of my father's murder.

However, I was able to shred my ex-husband's death certificate. That made me realize I was able to accept him and all that happened, then let it go. It was very difficult to do, and it took me a month to actually shred it after I decided that shredding it would be a start of letting go.

I feel the reluctance in getting rid of the news paper clippings of my father is my want to keep him a live. But in the same instance I have other photos of him so I'm keeping his murder alive. The thought of shredding them causes me anxiety but I know that I will do it when I'm ready to let go 100%.

I'm still stuck in thinking that I'm not honoring him by throwing them away when in reality I'm keeping his pain, which has turned into my pain, alive. It's flawed thinking.

My point in telling you this is that it might be a goal for you to tell yourself that at some point you will get rid of those photos of your abuse. I know they validate that you were hurt, but you don't need them.

Take care
Tammy

[anthony]

Hi Cypher, well done on getting some of this out. Now, this is not going to be like others replied to you, and this is what your getting yourself in for. Cypher, you are going to get ill from this if you go further. This is your warning... you will go down to a very bad place, likely even already hit bottom in the past, but you need to be aware and make that decision to continue reading or stop now. Your decision alone. This forum has a legal policy, ensure you have read it and understand it. If not, take it to your legal practitioner and they will help you.

You are going to get ill here, but it's going to be short term pain for long term gain on your behalf. Be aware, nothing I do here is for any other purpose than your benefit. You have to trust me and remain in control. You may become suicidal, though nothing different than you have already experienced no doubt with the pain. If you do then you need to seek local support immediately. If you trust me and trust yourself to keep at this and not give up when the going gets tough, and it will get tough, in a few months you are going to find yourself quite better off than now. It takes that time for the brain to process and accept anything new you learn.

I am guilty and only have myself to blame. I should have seen the warning signs and done something. I am at fault for the things that happened. Thats how I see it.
Cypher, you are partially correct in that you do have some blame for this matter, and that you are going to have to learn to accept that you screwed up in some aspects, you made some mistakes in some aspects, and you are going to have to live with that. You are also going to learn though which aspects you are responsible for and which you are not. You need to put a clear and distinctive line between them both. People often blame themselves for too much, which you are doing yourself. Others here have said its not your fault, but we both know honestly that is rubbish in its entirety. You have some fault, its just a matter of what, instead of you carrying the entire amount which I believe you are.

So my mom and her boyfriend show up at my door one day drugged up and smell of alcohol. It was my mom (I was adopted, so not my adoptive mom) and I wanted to help her out so I let them in to stay.
This is your fault, you own this. You had a decision to make in letting drugged and drunk people into your house. Because you did this, then that automatically means you do own some of the responsibility to what occurred to you, not all, just some.

At first they were behaving alright I guess, then they both started to verbally say things I didnt like. They became very contrilling moneywise, time wise and every other ___wise. I should have seen that as a warning, but I would have never thought how far it would jump.
Yes, this is your fault for not taking action immediately on all the signs they displayed to you, however; you do not own nor could have reasonably known what their intentions or future acts would encompass. You are now seeing a distinction made between your fault and their fault, what you knew and what is unknown. You must clearly define these aspects when viewing trauma. You must categorise them if you like.

THings escelated a bit, being physically abusive now. I should have done something.
As this was a short period of time, yes, you should have acted and removed them from your home, called the police, etc. Here is the tricky part though, and a very important part of how this is to be viewed within you.

This is lovely to look back and say what you should have done, could have done, but what I need to know from you is; what was in your mind at that time? Did you think at that time to call the police? If so, what did you think to not call them? What where your thoughts on allowing them to remain and do nothing about the way they treated you? I ask this because this is different to what many may think or relate, in that when you are referring to an abusive partner, someone who has strong emotion involved, compared to someone who doesn't have the same level of emotion involved. Did you feel more guilt instead of loving emotion towards letting them in? If so, why?

But the next thing I know I'm tied down naked and have a huge spider crawling on me... a gun and took out 5 bullets and put it in my mouth and pulled the trigger 3 times. Then spinned the cylander again and put it elsewhere and pulled the trigger 2 or 3 more times. My toenaile were painted by my neice at a family reunion we had not long before this and they ripped them off with vise grips... ...They raped me and pissed on me. My shoulder was dislocated somehow among other things.

Now, listen carefully.... their acts they own, you do not own what they did to you. Again, you do not own their acts against you, they do.

What you own is different, in that you own some of the responsibility for these acts to be taken place to begin with, in that you let them in, you put up with the escalating abuse, instead of calling the police and having them removed. You own those parts, you DO NOT own their acts of violence or torture against you. You need to clearly define those aspects in your mind so you can place blame where it should be placed, and not carry it all yourself.

Alot of other things happened that night and later the following 2 months. But for now, I'm stopping. It's all my fault this happened, I had signs and did nothing.
This is where things change.... being in an abuse cycle where you now have been degraded or threatened, scared and intimidated to do as you are told. We will come back to these things....

You need to read these things very carefully Cypher, you need to read it over and over if required, you need to not take negatives but instead read and use information here in its entirety, full statements, full sentences or paragraphs, not take a small context and manipulate or use it any other way. It is important for you to understand every aspect of what we are doing here in order to help you come to terms with your trauma and assign guilt and blame in the right areas to begin with.

[Murphy's Law]

I dont quite know what to say, so good luck.
Jill

[cypher]

Anthony, you scared the %$#*! out of me with the legal policy, I read it. What happens if anything at all.? (theres 2 more postea about it)

[cypher]

"what was in your mind at that time? Did you think at that time to call the police? If so, what did you think to not call them? What where your thoughts on allowing them to remain and do nothing about the way they treated you?"


Honestly, I wasnt thinking anyhing much at all, I knew I had to get them out, but was lost as to how. Obviously I was terrified of these people and spent as little time at home as possible. I think they drugged me sometimes. I was numb to everything, They threatened me with "worse things". I did know I had to call the police, but they were always around the phone (I have 1) And because of the money they were taking I really had very little and it was my mom, and despite what she did , i felt I had to help her, regardledss. I actually tried to get rid of them sometimes but they forced their way back in. and with them controlling the phone.... now that i think about it i could have used a public phone. :wall::eek:. I'm so f**ing stupid

[anthony]

Ok, so now you are answering some of the questions in which you fail to understand within you.... being how much blame is yours. This is the best way for people to understand, in that you ask them the right questions they often answer their own unanswered questions... being I am pushing you into an unconventional place to make you think for yourself, now showing you your own responses in a different way. You said:

Obviously I was terrified of these people and spent as little time at home as possible.
I think they drugged me sometimes.
They threatened me with "worse things".
I did know I had to call the police, but they were always around the phone (I have 1) And because of the money they were taking I really had very little and it was my mom...
i felt I had to help her, regardledss.
I actually tried to get rid of them sometimes but they forced their way back in.
and with them controlling the phone.... now that i think about it i could have used a public phone. :wall::eek:. I'm so f**ing stupidSo I reword this back at you:

So they made you feel terrified... (not in your control - intimidation and fear lower self esteem)
So possibly they drugged you so you where not in control of your mind or body...
They threatened you, meaning they instilled fear into you (terror as above #1)...
The phone one you own... which hindsight is a wonderful thing, though often not useful for us. Accept that you where terrified and likely not thinking accurately...
You felt a guilt towards your mother... not sure why, though suspect more to this one...
They forced their way into your house when you got them out... (not in your control)So here are some points to help you assign their and your parts of blame into your mind. These are not excuses, these are feelings and realistic aspects of the traumatic event that based your actions and decisions.

[anthony]

If you had to write an accurate list of traumatic events, in a point form, could you do that and assign who owns the act? For example, from what you have written you could begin:

I let them in to stay in my house (I own this act)
They verbally abused me (They own what words they speak)
They physically abused me (They own their actions, you own yours)
They duck taped and tied me up (They own this act)
They put a gun to my head and in my vagina (They own this act)
They strangled me (They own the act)
They raped me (They own the act as it was forced, not consensual)
I should have called the police (I own this act for not using a public phone)
etc etc etc....Lets see how well you can after now reading the above post as an example of guilt / blame identification.

[anthony]

How are you doing cypher? I understand if you are much much worse today, that is the usual effect from dealing head on with traumatic aspects, and you are going to get worse doing this before getting better, but trust me that you are soon going to be having more good days than bad in only a few short months from what I am going to put you through, what your going to put yourself through even.... just hang in and don't give up here. Just be honest with me, with yourself, and you are going to do just fine...

This isn't going to be easy on you.... it never is. Wasn't on me either...

[cypher]

Hi, Thanks for the replies, they all help, thankyou. Anthony, thanks for your help! I'm doing alright.


I let them stay- This was my voluntary act, I wanted to help my mom and hated seeing her this way.
They became varbally abusive- this was their act and words, I did not like this. (one of the signs I ignored though, could have asked them to stop, but not sure what would have happened).
THey started to physically abuse me- I hated this, painful and degrading along with the verbals- this was their act (another sign)
They drugged me- I remember now the needle holes in my arms, and tied me up- their actions. Things are blurry though, why didnt I try to get away, was he to overpowering???
The spider- their action ( I dont even know where they got it from) something was planned out though because my mom knew I am scared out of my mind of them
The gun- I was helpless as to what to do, I couldnt think of anything, my mind was blown away as to what was heppening (no pun intended) put in mouth/vaginally and pulled trigger - their actions.
Ripped off my toenails with vise grips- nothing I could do, their actions, extremmely painful!!!!!!!!
Putting out cigaretts on my arm in the shape of swastikas one cig at a time (2 swastikas). their actions tied down i couldnt get away
They strangled my- their action, nothing I could do as being tied down
They raped me/urinated on me- forced and nothing i could do again- their actions, felt so helpless and worthless
I should have used a public phone- my action, I really didnt even think about it until the other post, but my fault entirely.
Rented them a hotel room for 1 week- my plan- they came back 2 weeks later and forced their way in
Raped more, beat up more, verbals continued- my fault I should have fought them, but was thinking theyde kill me or damage me beyond what i could imagine. Again, the public phone my fault
strangled and left for dead in the woods, but I had just passed out(they didnt know that, thought I was dead.) dumped in the woods
Theres one thing I'm leaving out that i dont ever want to go back to (has to do with them looking up torture/ war crimes etc, cant bring myself to tell my T either.)I'm numb to all of this at this point (eithr numb of angry beyond anything) and dont know how to react or respond. I see my T once a week and I thinks it's helping ( I hope) She hade me write what happened out and read it to her and Anthony, your right I felt like shit afterwards (and during)

[anthony]

Ok cypher, your doing ok there, but your taking on some things that you just do not own... you first put it on them, then blamed yourself again further down. Lets now pull this apart one at a time so you can relearn the truth to your life, using commonsense and realism to what occurred. You need to fill in the blanks here obviously.

I want you to notice something here cypher, a very important aspect of abuse. Whilst I say to you that you own some aspects here, is because of the short period of time in which things escalated and you could have controlled compared to an abusive relationship, where love and strong emotion is at play, often a slower process of degradation to break the partners self esteem to dependence upon the stronger, allowing them to do anything they want. Your time frame was much shorter than an abusive relationship with a partner, though still does carry and warrant some aspects which need to be dealt with.

Lets start at the beginning and ease you into this one step at a time.

You Let Them Stay With You

Tell me about this first part... everything you can remember please from opening the door... your thoughts, feelings, guilt if any, etc.

[cypher]

OK, so I'm sitting there playing Super Mario Sunshine on my gamecube(nobody laugh :smile:), when someone knocks on the door. I open it and it's my mom, I hadnt seen her in a few years, she looked much older and diffrent from what I remember. She explaind who her partner was and the both smelled of smoke, alcohol, but I let them in, I felt badly and did not like seeing my mom in this condition. I did not feel guilty for this at al.

They behaved ok that night and the first few days or weeks. They did drugs once in front of me and I noticed they were using the same needle, so I went to the store and bought them needles (is this supporting their addiction, or trying to prevent them from getting sick, I saw it 99% the latter, but 1% of the other.)

One day I did not have needles and he punched me in the stoumach multiple times. I got needles the next day and they were furious at something?? Was it me, did something happen while I wasnt there? Turns out they gave me a specific time to be home by and i didnt make it (just remembered this part) they had become very controlling iin not alot of time. Things ran through my head like did they plan this out, my mom knew I was terrified of spiders. Or was it something else? I dont know.

I was drugged and tied down with the spider on me crawling toward my fack/neck. They are laughing at me trying to get away from it but cant. It goes close to my mouth and they plug my nose so I have to breath through my mouth and it half way crawled insied/ I threw up and it got away for a bit.

TBC......

[Nicolette]

Wow. The spider incident is cruel cypher. I feel for you.

[anthony]

I felt badly and did not like seeing my mom in this condition. I did not feel guilty for this at al.
Well done cypher, we have a starting place. So you didn't feel guilty... more empathy for your mothers current condition. Nothing bad with that.

so I went to the store and bought them needles
Yes, this is called enabling behaviour. Regardless that you did it for any other reason you want to tell yourself, even felt as being right at the time, end of the day you enabled their taking of drugs by not saying something at that time, ie. "If you want to stay here then you cannot do drugs here." An assertive stance was needed, though doesn't help now in hindsight, so lets keep going forward. Learn from your mistakes is my point here. Do not enable a persons poor behaviour, regardless what benefits you feel it could have, if the behaviour is poor in judgement, illegal or of health consequence, simply do not enable it period. Learn from your mistakes, this is part of the identification process.... don't ignore anything. This is why we are starting at the beginning.

IMPORTANT: They both own their behaviour of drug use... you own nothing of their use. You own enabling their behaviour of taking drugs in your home by buying them needles, that is all you own. Accept that, not the drug use; unless you willingly took drugs yourself, not by force.

One day I did not have needles and he punched me in the stoumach multiple times.
He owns this physical violence, not you. You are the victim of his behaviour, a behaviour which he owns outright. You have nothing to own or feel guilty off here. You need to learn this... you need to repeat this over and over until you get it in your head with a clear distinction of what you own vs. what others own. Isolate them both.

Turns out they gave me a specific time to be home by and i didnt make it (just remembered this part) they had become very controlling iin not alot of time.
I will put it to your simply I think... they preyed upon you as you likely already had a low self esteem to put up with this rubbish to begin with. The answer to why you had low self esteem already is yet to be discovered.

I was drugged and tied down with the spider on me crawling toward my fack/neck.
They own this behaviour. Simply question. Did you ask to be tied up and have a spider put on you? If the answer is yes, then you own that. If the answer is no, then you own no part in this behaviour and they are responsible for it 100%. You are the victim in relation to this aspect.

The big question to understand here is... why did you stay in that circumstance since it was within only days / weeks of beginning?

[sunnydaze]

cypher,
This sounds like a terrible, terrible sadistic movie. I cannot comment on this as,I am very disturbed by your story and you going through this. My only advise right now to you is GO TO THE POLICE. Do not let them in your home any longer. I don't know if this is the right advise to give you but, I would move and get a non-published number. I know one can't run away from their problems and must face them but this is too too much.
I will pray you do the right thing for yourself.
Welcome
sunnydaze

[cypher]

I am curious, and I hope you dont mind me asking. now that you have talked about it, and see that you are still safe, does that help?

It helps, yes to a point. I just learned recently (last day or so) they were both arrested. THat helps alot. BUt it still scares the &*#$ out of me anytime someone knocks on my door. And i'm very alert as to when my neighbors are coming and going, amoung other sounds and stuff.

Take Care

Go Habs!

[cypher]

As a human being we want to see the best in our parents even when we have clues that something is not right. We tend to deny that there is anything wrong with them when we love them.

That is so true! I really dont know most others traumas here, and I hope that everyone is doing well! Alot of whats being said here hits home. And this did. I couldnt let my mom out on the street, cold and nowhere to go, roaming the streets, nothing to eat. I did have clues something was wrong and I tried to help her fix it, but things got out of control quite quickly. I do love my mom and it really killed me that she did something like this to me. I don't like that fact that I cant trust her anymore. I'm sad that whatever happened in her life lead her to the choices shes made. I tried to get them both to go to alcoholic group sessions/ drug addict groups, but no luck.

Take Care and thanks for the post, it helped, I hope I can do the same for others.

[cypher]

I have a saying that I used when I did presentations at local schools/colleges during my time as a rape crisis counselor. Here it is:

I could walk into a frat. party, in the middle of the night, piss drunk and completely naked, AND NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO TOUCH ME!Nic

Thats admirable for doing that, I'm sure you helped alot of people!! :clap:

Thats a heafty statemant, and so true, not that I would reccomend doing something of that nature, but its true. Thanks for the statement.

[cypher]

Cyper, it might be a good idea to get rid of those pictures. I'm still struggling with getting rid of the news paper clippings of my father's murder.

My point in telling you this is that it might be a goal for you to tell yourself that at some point you will get rid of those photos of your abuse. I know they validate that you were hurt, but you don't need them.

Thats a good idea, I wouldnt want to happen upon one one day, or have someone using my computer and find them and be like "what the %*!@!!

I'll try doing that sometime in the near future, sooner the better. Great idea, thanks!!

[cypher]

[quote=anthony;67836]This forum has a legal policy, ensure you have read it and understand it. If not, take it to your legal practitioner and they will help you.quote]

I read it, but dont get it, I'm not very legally knowledgable about stuff like that and I cant spell either. I'll read it again later with my dictionary. :rolleyes:

[sunnydaze]

cypher,
So glad to hear they were arrested. When someone is troubled that much there is nothing you can do to help them. Leave that to the experts. It sounds like they are in satanic rituals and you are very, very fortunate to be alive. I wish you the best in your healing efforts.
sunnydaze

[anthony]

Legal policy simply means you do this at your own risk, you do it at your own accord, the forum is not held liable period. As I stated earlier, if you do not understand it then you need to have someone interpret it to you personally, not here, face to face, so you do understand. As I outlined earlier, by continuing this you are aware of your responsibilities in this matter. By being here you already accepted the legal policy. If you do not, then your only option is to cease using this forum immediately.

[cypher]

cypher,
My only advise right now to you is GO TO THE POLICE. Do not let them in your home any longer. I don't know if this is the right advise to give you but, I would move and get a non-published number.

THat is good advise! I found out a day or 2 (??) ago that they were both arrested. And I will NEVER open my door to them again, regardless of how much I would love to help my mom, or how much of a guilt trip they would put me through. NEVER!!! Thats one of the million other things I need to learn about.
THanks!!

[anthony]

You need to stick to what you just said though.... NEVER allow them back into your house, life, anything to do with you. Do not be threatened, when you have a chance to run for aid, do so. Get police involved because you cannot handle them yourself, nor should you. Experience has taught you lessons, which you must use to learn from. Yes, they are unfortunate and nobody should ever have to learn such lessons, but the honest facts are that there are some nasty people in this world. Pick and choose carefully and most of all... trust your instincts. I just cannot tell people that enough. Women are far superior in this that males, to trust their instincts.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its not a swan; its a duck. Trust your instincts and take control of your life. You do not control others, but you do control you. You do not control what another may do to you, however; you do control what you can do to help yourself. Well done cypher...

[sunnydaze]

cypher,
Please understand, you cannot help your mom. The help she needs is way to complicated for you. Leave it in the professionals hands. I always said anyone can be a father or mother but it takes a special person that treats you with dignity and honor and love and compassion to be a real parent. I have searched all my life for a replacement mom even while my mom was alive. It just didn't happen. I am a mom and grandmother so I quit looking and desiring and wanting someone to hold me and say I love you like a real mom does. I am 55, it won't happen.
You have got to realize what your mom did is not normal and she left you for dead. I know one still says "but it's my mom". I am sorry, I thought my mom was terrible and I didn't talk to her much because I couldn't get over how she could keep hurting me they way she did. I now realize she was sick. She didn't do nearly the terrible things your mom did. You must move on w/o a mom. It would take a miracle for her to change even if she went off the drugs and got help for her to be a real mom to you.
How old are you? Let the law handle her and please stay away, she will only hurt you emotionally putting you on a guilt trip and making you feel worse than you already do. You need to heal and that can only happen w/o her. Excuse me for saying this but I would put in my mind she has passed away so you can begin to heal.
This story has really touched me and a little part of me tried to say it is fictional. Nothing like this could have happened. I do realize in this crazy world it could. I will pray for you and your healing. Please listen to me and Anthony and the rest of this group. Anthony is a very wise man and does give excellant advise. I am afraid for you.
sunnydaze

[cypher]

"If you want to stay here then you cannot do drugs here." An assertive stance was needed, though doesn't help now in hindsight, so lets keep going forward. Learn from your mistakes is my point here.

Ya know, looking/thinking back on some of these things, I was a complete idiot, but at the same time she was my mom, I wanted to help her so bad, it hurt to see her passing out and throwing up all over the place, checking their pulses afterward to see if they were alive and cleaning up after them. I hated seeing her drugged up and drunk. But I knew my place was much safer/better then where they had been, the street, where drugs/sex/alcohol/danger amoung other things is abundent. They were safe staying with me (excluding the drugs and alcohol) which I provided needles for so they wouldnt pass any kind of disease. After a few weeks, I relized I was the one who was not safe, and I should have said something, you're right, I didnt have the confidence, or what to expect when i asked them. (would it get worse, would they leave, if it got worse, call police, tell someone) With providing those needles the first time, they came to expect it the next time, and grew physical when I did not bring them any.



Learn from your mistakes, this is part of the identification process.... don't ignore anything. This is why we are starting at the beginning.

I'm hoping to do this, I always seem to learn the hard way in life :wall:. I would love to think none of this was my fault, but it is. I would like to think at my age (and with all my wisdom and understanding of the world around me:crazy:) I would have known much better, but it goes back to my mom and wanting to help. I really hated seeing her like that!! I think ive learned alot the past few months, not only about myself but about others too. I got a long way to go though.




IMPORTANT: They both own their behaviour of drug use... you own nothing of their use. You own enabling their behaviour of taking drugs in your home by buying them needles, that is all you own. Accept that, not the drug use; unless you willingly took drugs yourself, not by force.

I have never done drugs before (willingly), I've drank alot lately (thats an understatement) I was drugged however unwillingly at times by them, coming too raped, beaten, bloody. I do own the use of some of the drugs used by them from the needles I got them (some they smoked, some inhaled some by mouth...) I see 2 (or 3) parts to this--

1- they shared needles, that scared me, i dont know if they did that on the street too, but if they were going to do a drug that required needles in my place, it was going to be with a clean, sterile needle for their saftey and protection.
2- I did not like them doing this in my place, I did not like seeing them doing this in my place, I was aginst this. I did approach them about it, but did not take up any kind of if..... then..... statement to them. I guess I was somewhat intimidated by them and did not take a good stand, looking back I should have had more confidence in myself or gotten help elsewhere. I called some drug help places in my area and tried to get them to go, but no cigar.
(3) I do recognize that it was me and the needles, that was all on me. I got them one package one time and then they expected it from me and when I failed to deliver, things got bad. So that made me get them more out of fear, again, I should have done something, gotten help.

You need to learn this... you need to repeat this over and over until you get it in your head with a clear distinction of what you own vs. what others own. Isolate them both.

This is good advice, I should make a list (kinda like what you showed me earlier) to distinguish.


I will put it to your simply I think... they preyed upon you as you likely already had a low self esteem to put up with this rubbish to begin with. The answer to why you had low self esteem already is yet to be discovered.

You read people well Anthony, I do have a low self esteem. Maybe thats why at first they behaved ok, then got worse quickly??? because they learned my behavior over the weeks and saw someone who lacked confidence in myself, insecure, not valued. I dont know why, it's just always been like this.


Simply question. Did you ask to be tied up and have a spider put on you? If the answer is yes, then you own that. If the answer is no, then you own no part in this behaviour and they are responsible for it 100%.

I DID NOT ask to be tied down and have a huge spider put on me and crawl in (i cant go any further with that). I was terrified of them in the first place and for this to happen, I dont know what to do, how to act, or what to think, how to heal mentally from this. Even today at work there was a little one and i freaked out and thought one was on me, in my mouth. I didnt ask for cigarettes to be put out on the bottom of my feet, and on my arm in the shape of swastikas (2 of them). I didnt ask to be raped and strangled and left for dead in the woods (after them forcing their way back in after the hotel, and the major guilt trip, definetly should have done something) or anything else that happened. But had I mentioned this to someone, poilce, coworker, anyone, It may very well have been prevented. :wall:

The big question to understand here is... why did you stay in that circumstance since it was within only days / weeks of beginning?

It all goes back to my mom I believe. I love her regardless of what path shes chosen in life. I didnt want them back on the street, when I knew they would be safe and warm and fed at my place, away from the strains of street life. (which I know absolutely nothing about, i'm very fourtanate to have the things that i do, a great job, awesome people that i work with that are putting up with alot of the things that go along with ptsd, great family (adoptive), food to eat, a roof over my head, my health, (well, nothing too serious or life threatening. got away with a fractured larynx and other stuff when they were there, but overall good health for now, getting better every day, some setbacks but...) yeah, they definetly took advantage of me, and for the umpteenth time should have done something and I now have even less self esteem, less respect for myself, I started to believe the verbals they threw at me. I feel useless and hopeless, despite the things I have, I still feel this way, which is wrong in my opinion.

[cypher]

You need to stick to what you just said though.... NEVER allow them back into your house, life, anything to do with you. Do not be threatened, when you have a chance to run for aid, do so. Get police involved because you cannot handle them yourself, nor should you. Experience has taught you lessons, which you must use to learn from.

I am sticking to it, I really hope I never see them again. If I do, police will be involved, Im completely defensless aginst her boyfriend, hes overpowering. I have learned alot about myself, life in general, and I'll use it. My weaknesses and strengths showed up during that time (mostly weaknesses) but I have learned from them.


Pick and choose carefully and most of all... trust your instincts. I just cannot tell people that enough. Women are far superior in this that males, to trust their instincts.

I need to relearn this, I really thought when I let them in they would be fine. And at first they were, but it eventually got worse and worse. Never in my wildest dreams would I expect what happened to happen. I need to work on this.


You do not control others, but you do control you. You do not control what another may do to you, however; you do control what you can do to help yourself. Well done cypher...

I have learned alot from this about myself and others, life in general. This is a strong statement, it has alot of meaning. I like it. I should tatoo it to my eyeballs so I can see it all the time. :wink: Deep quote there.

[cypher]

cypher, Please understand, you cannot help your mom. The help she needs is way to complicated for you. Leave it in the professionals hands.

As much as I hate to admit it, youre right. I really wanted to help her and feel badly that I couldnt. Youre right it's up to the pros to help her (if they can)

I have searched all my life for a replacement mom even while my mom was alive. It just didn't happen. I am a mom and grandmother so I quit looking and desiring and wanting someone to hold me and say I love you like a real mom does. I am 55, it won't happen.

If you dont mind me asking, (I dont know if it's out of bounds??) but why did you stop looking? I think theres someone out there for everyone, regardless of age, or type of relationship. I hope you dont give up looking! You never know what will happen or who you'll meet. I hope you find what you've been searching for for so long!!

You need to heal and that can only happen w/o her. Excuse me for saying this but I would put in my mind she has passed away so you can begin to heal.

No offence taken, but very interesting thought! deep.


This story has really touched me and a little part of me tried to say it is fictional. Nothing like this could have happened. I do realize in this crazy world it could. I will pray for you and your healing. Please listen to me and Anthony and the rest of this group. Anthony is a very wise man and does give excellant advise. I am afraid for you.
sunnydaze


Thanks, sometimes I dont even think it could have happened, but then look at all the scars and bam, it did. Yeah, I'm finding that this is a very supportive site!! I'm glad I found it. Anthony is very helpful, and yes, gives very good advise!! Everyone is great here!

[sunnydaze]

cyper,
I too have learned the hard way all of my life. However, as long as you learned than something has been accomplished. Even if you take a step backwards think about it and move forwards again.
When I was searching for a (real mom), I went to some of my moms friends whom I seemed to admire when I was little. They downright out told me " I already raised my children". I didn't really push the mom issue just told them about my search. They were not kind to me. I have helped many older ones in the past just to be taken advantage of.

When my mom died, I had my own funeral service on my porch for 3 days. I played every sad song I could find. I played them over and over again till my husband and friends could not take it anymore. I lived on the porch got drunk and cried and cried. I had brought all the funeral flowers to my home and placed them on the porch. After 3 days my friends came over and removed them.

There is a 50's song that I loved the most called " I can never go home anymore". I had told my husband I didn't know if I was crying for the loss of my mother or the hope she would not be here to change and be a real mother to me. Than BINGO that was it, she would not be around for her to change.
There was another song by Garth Brooks called "The last dance" that I played over and over again. It was my first and only dance I had with my mom a few years before she died. We were at a bar and danced. My step-father was there and faked a heartattack because he was not getting the attention at that moment. The EMS came and he ran out the back door.

Than my mom decided to date my uncle that abused me. That was it, I didn't talk to her for a long time. I called her a few months before she died and was grateful so I didn't feel terrible when she died of not talking to her. I tried to help her out, she too was a drug addict and alcoholic. She didn't see she had a problem so I knew it wasn't up to me to try and fix her. She killed my dad and again I was there for her but it didn't matter. The more I tried the more emotional abuse she did to me. She tried to tell me never to go back to church because God would never forgive me for the things I did in my life. She went! Dah! She killed my father and thought God forgave her but would not me.

I now have a deeper belief in God and am happy that I can see for myself in the Bible how forgiving he really is, if we change our bad ways. Many people in the Bible did bad too but God forgave them. Those type of scriptures she left out when trying to prove her points.
sunnydaze:dontknow:

[She Cat]

Hi Cypher,

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in..... What you have been through...NO human being should have gone through that. At the hands of your mother makes it all the more painful. I am so sorry that you had to suffer this.

I commend you for opening up with Anthony. I commend you for your brave effort to open up in an open forum and air all of your trauma. It took guts and courage to do this.

Straight through your trauma is the only way to get healthy. Take breaks when you need to, and take care of yourself. Do something nice for yourself. You deserve it.

You are one brave, courageous lady.

[cypher]

Thanks for the posts, brings up things I'll need to look into with my T furthur. and thanks for the support everyone! This has been very helpful! Thanks

[dshanks]

Woww!!! I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you are way too hard on yourself... I don't get it. It is not your fault and coming to terms with what happened is not about blaming yourself. You should be easier on yourself. But that is only what I think!:think:

[anthony]

Your doing extremely well here Cypher, and the best thing you did was start this process and now you have taken it into therapy. This is exactly what this forum does... gets you to air things out, get you past the initial fear, then get talking about it here, therapy, wherever required providing your getting good feedback and being pushed along the right paths to help yourself find the answers that best suit you.

Well done... Baby steps... that's all it takes. Two steps forward, one step back, is better than no steps forward.

[becvan]

Well done Cypher! You should be very proud of yourself. Not only did you work through this in public, but carried it over to therapy. Excellent work.

bec

[cypher]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Today I had a very good (though a rough) session with my T. We talked about responsibility and I hope I'm begining to understand that we all own our own actions. I still find alot of fault/guilt in myself, but I think we're working closer to something more realistic in terms of the responsibility factor. Again, thanks for all the replies, they bring things up that I had not thought about, or something I could bring up next week, etc... Thanks!

[anthony]

I still find alot of fault/guilt in myself, but I think we're working closer to something more realistic in terms of the responsibility factor.
As I said I would use this as a learning principle for those who face the same issues.... and this result above is exactly the idea of being pushed as I did with cypher in the first place... to get a boot in the arse with honest answers so you begin doing the hard work yourself in therapy... that is the idea. Therapy is not meant to be a playground...

Well done cypher... your doing exactly as this technique is designed... age old, therapists use it all the time; just most don't really still a good hard swift kick in the arse to reality within it... hard, but needed when dealing with such trauma.

The exact idea of taking an already proven technique and simply adding a tougher approach is because trauma has damaged so much self esteem, so much of your brains commonsense functioning... so the only way to budge a person is to kick them off their perch basically speaking... so once off and running they control the further approach themselves with a good therapist who is willing to take what they have done and run with it to the end.

[cypher]

Thanks Anthony! Shes having me read what I wrote every day and make notes of how/what I'm feeling in the present in terms of the responsibility, trying to see things as realistically as I can and we'll review it next week. At some parts I have multiple faults (myself and my mom, her boyfriend) at others, single faults. Working on it. I agree, some things you just need a good, quality kick in the ass to get you going.

Again, thanks for the posts. Everyone have a great one!

[anthony]

Cyper... really great to hear your feedback. Honestly, it will take you a good month or two of solid telling yourself your new reality on who owns what before it begins to stick in your brain as the "new normal" for you, but that is scientifically just a fact that it takes the brain 30 days (i think it is) from start to finish for your brain to change a learnt habit.

Really well done that you are pushing through this with your therapist; even better that you have a good therapist that is continuing to now push you on this and work through it, not around it or avoid it. Really positive news and the end result is your success... that is the aim.

[cypher]

Honestly, it will take you a good month or two of solid telling yourself your new reality on who owns what before it begins to stick in your brain as the "new normal" for you, but that is scientifically just a fact that it takes the brain 30 days (i think it is) from start to finish for your brain to change a learnt habit.

wow,This is interesting! Great stuff, thanks!

Yeah, I really like my T, I think I open up more each time I see her. And she's firm when she needs to be and I like that. It kinda makes an impression on me because she's pretty laid back so when she puts a can of kick ass behind her words- it sticks. The point is clear and and taken in.