Oh I'm shure they will be finding you, you sound like a great person to have as a friend.

Ah yes, Rwanda. What a lovely place that is, not! Batgirl, I can understand the hatred you have towards your father actually, as hatred is hatred, just different circumstances surround it. Your attempted murderer was your father, of all people, and as you outlined, nothing you seen coming from his demoir as a person. I have no doubt that he had PTSD from serving in Rwanda, with Kosovo following. People cannot understand what a war zone is like, unless they have been through it, as is with any traumatic event. Just like yours, whilst someone else who has survived a shooting can understand the shooting part, unless they where shot by a parent and survived, they could not totally understand. I can understand from your Fathers perspective, to a point, being a veteran myself and serving within the places of the world that generally civilians choose to ignore. As Kerrie-Ann said, "peace keeping" is merely a label attached to an overall group which realistically means, the United Nations are involved. The UN do not go into war zones, they go into "peace keeping" zones. Iraq is a peace keeping zone, and as the world can see for itself, there isn't any "peace" within Iraq for those soliders. Rwanda was the same, where the enemy was everyone and anyone. It could be a small child who suddenly unleashes a grenade, machete or machine gun, or a pregnant women with explosives, detonators and semi-automatic weapon. I have been in these very places where the enemy is everyone and anyone, and the only people you can trust are those in the uniform you wear. It really messes with your mind, and did with mine. I could have been another statistic, in that I killed myself and anyone around me, becaue my frame of mind was nothing like normal for some time. It was only absolute sheer luck on my behalf that I got noticed early enough and forced into counselling whilst I still had a little to hold onto too in life. You would be quite surprised that if I hadn't had my son within my life already, I would be dead already, because I held on for so long just because of him, and I would think that maybe your father was holding on to life just for his children also, but help just couldn't get to him in time in order to stop what had begun long before, the war within his mind.

It is actually really quite difficult for me to write this to you batgirl, because this is pulling some extreme vunerabilities from my past and trying to show you things that go on within us from being exposed to war. I guess, I am not trying to find excuses for your father, or his actions, as that is not my motive here, I guess I am just trying to give you some experience, maybe insight, into what goes on within a mind that has suffered extreme trauma from war, Rwanda being such a war.

I guess I am just rambling here also. How much has anyone tried to teach you about your Fathers thinking patterns in regard to his end actions? I mean, to help you try and understand why he did it, opposed to that what he did? I can say from experience, that your father was not in a controlled frame of mind at that time, and he had very little control over his decisions at that time, yet he still had some, and he still had some control over his choices, so he still bears some blame for his actions, have no doubt. Do I believe he is 100% at blame / fault for his actions? No, because PTSD is much much stronger than that, and it can, and will control a mind if allowed, allowing very little interaction from the holder of that mind to any say in the decision. PTSD is very powerful, and is a killer, in many ways, as you know from experience batgirl.

I feel really bad actually for you having to suffer such an act, especially being from your father, because the help everyone in the world is trying to get into those with PTSD, we still cannot do enough to save everyone, which is sometimes just painful to comprehend, but it is also reality. If we can help you come to terms with your trauma batgirl, I guess atleast that makes another person that is less likely to be killed by PTSD, especially considering you survived once, now to just survive it from yourself.

Batgirl,

Yep that's the man. I suggest that you don't read the book at all or for a very long time. Your healing is more important than dealing with ghosts. As I said I started to read it but it saddened and distressed me all at once. You are in a bit of hard place because you have life experience as a result of decisions that were never really made by you or your father. I was going to say that he chose the end result but I wonder did it really choose him? He deserved more support than he was obviously given and you now deserve the chance to heal. Its not about your Dad anymore, its about you.

As for being different to everyone else. What's 'normal' anyway? Perhaps once you give yourself some time to heal, you will understand that not everyone is going to judge you by circumstances which were not your fault. Hopefully with the help of this community and the benefit of other experiences you can begin to heal and then form the some friendships to help ease your burden. Take care of you.

Anthony,

Thanks so much for your post. It helped me more than I can put into words. I haven't really talked to any veterans or people in the military since my father's breakdown. It's been a trigger for me, but it's really great to hear your take on things. I see a lot of my father in what you're saying. I totally agree about not trusting anyone who isn't in a uniform. My father and his friends used to talk about that kind of thing... one of his friends was in the Middle East, Israel or Lebanon, and I remember him saying they couldn't even trust a baby in a carriage, because it might be rigged with an explosive, or pick up anything off the street, even a tissue or a pen, because it might be some sort of bomb. And I know Rwanda was really really horrible for my dad in a lot of ways... for one thing, the soldiers were ordered not to intervene with the genocide. That must have caused so many feelings of guilt and helplessness in my father, on top of everything else.

It's amazing how much people want to hang on to the words "peacekeeping forces". Just a short while ago our Prime Minister referred to our country's involvement in Afganistan as a war rather than a "peacekeeping mission", and all hell broke loose in the press. Many people were very opposed to the PM using the word "war". I even overheard discussions about it in coffee shops and at the grocery store. I don't know, maybe being peacekeepers just sounds more "noble" or something... I even use the word peacekeeper to describe my father, because I've found people think of him more favorably when I say that, than if I just say he was a soldier.

And no, no one has ever really tried to explain my father's actions or frame of mind to me, even the psychiatrist and therapists I have seen. The only thing they consistently ask is whether he was abusive to me beforehand (he wasn't, ever), and did I suspect what he was going to do, or was it a total surprise (it was a total surprise). Once I asked a therapist if my father had PTSD too and she said, "Does it really matter? He's dead. Let's concentrate on you." I understand what she means, but at the same time, I would like to get to a point where, even if I can't ever stop hating my father, at least I could I maybe comprehend a bit of what was going in his head. I also get annoyed because often therapists I've seen (and I've seen a few, because I won't stay with one I don't like haha), just basically assume that because my father was in the service, he was bound to be mental, crazy, whatever, and poor me for having to endure him. But the truth is, he was a very gentle person up until the breakdown. He was depressed and drinking after coming back from Kosovo, but even then he wasn't nasty to the family, just withdrawn. Prior to that he had always been a pretty decent father I think. He never once struck me. He didn't yell much, either... he was patient. So to say what he did was a shock to me and everyone else was a major understatement!!! It was totally out of character and I agree with you it must have been the PTSD more than him.

Still I hate him though. I hate him for killing my brother, the only other close blood relative I had. I hate him for trying to end my life too, and all the pain of physical recovery I had to go through because of that. I hate him for killing himself and everyone else in front of me. I don't think I'll ever get that picture out of my mind. It's like, he couldn't handle all the stuff he's seen overseas, so he killed himself and everyone, but in the process gave me a "taste" of what he had seen... and now I have to live with it for the rest of my life. It's funny though, because it spite of all that part of me still feels really sorry for him, too, and misses him. Bleah, I'm all screwed up about it, obviously!!!!

Anyways I am rambling now too but thanks so much for your input. I appreciate it so much!

Yeah that's good advice. I've done some exposure therapy, but it's all been very minor, harmless things, such as what I had for dinner the night of the shooting, TV shows that remind me of my dad, etc. The psychiatrist who initially assessed me said it would be very difficult and probably undesirable for me to ever do any exposure therapy relating to guns, wars or other violent events. Still, it would be nice to get to a point where I could somewhat handle those things... as it is, I can't watch television for fear of violence coming on in some form. I listen to the news over the radio or read newspapers, and rent movies only when I am certain they aren't going to trigger me. I'd like to avoid less.

I understand what you mean about my dad. He was a good person. If he had been evil and a bad father my whole life, I think hating him would be a lot easier. As things are, it's complicated. He was sick, obviously, and suffering. I feel bad for him about that. But I'm angry at him for what he did. And it's SO final. Like I can't ever confront him about it or anything.

Yeah I guess there isn't a "normal" person... and normal can be pretty boring. My best friend says she really likes me because I am different... I do worry though about what people think. Mostly that they will think I might go "postal" some day, just like my father, with no warning. And of course it's not my fault, but I do feel ashamed of what happened to my family. I guess that's something I have to work on.

I have endured this situation on occassions myself batgirl, and let me just say, this is what caused me the most amount of anger within myself towards the world. I have watched people kill others, woman and children, and not allowed to interfere at all, instead only allowed to withdraw from the situation and let them handle their own affairs their way so politics is kept safe and sound. So yes, screw people, as long as the politics is all shiny, apparently the world is good.

Just had to walk away from this for a minute.... it still causes me much frustration. Batgirl, I can understand your Fathers frustration that was eating away at him, because I had this for so long, and still occassionally do still, where we are sent to help people, yet helping them is also staying out of their business and allowing innocent killings to be undertaken. I took a quote from myself from another post in regard to where my anger used to be:
This used to be me, and it would have gotten worse if I wasn't forced into counselling and control as I was. All this was my way of trying to work out the anger I had from seeing these things and not being allowed to step in. You just don't know how hard it is to watch a childs head shot off and not step in and kill the MF with the gun thinking their a big person killing a defenceless innocent child. The pain that type of thing brings is just not explained, it is felt. Your Father felt it, just as I, hence I can relate to his state of mind at the time. His pain would have been incredible, and all in all trying to push it down to save you children, where unbeknownst to him, it was the very thing that made him pull the trigger on his own family, then himself.

None of this is an excuse for his actions, because at the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions, me included, and I have healed mine and accept the guilt I have, though I understand why I had such pain and anger for so long.

Its more societies way of ignoring the real facts of the very situations that surround them. If men and women are "peacekeeping" then they are not at war or being killed, they are just "keeping the peace". Those who choose to remain ignorant on that fact do so for their own selfish needs, but when your on a "peacekeeping" mission, your certainly not their to shake hands with them and be nice. It's the new word for war, so society excepts more readily the deployment of troops and can remain as ignorant as they desire to the actual facts of what is going on.

90% of therapists and shrinks are idiots, with nothing more than book smarts as their knowledge base, no real world experience or commonsense. If they just applied commonsense, then for any person to heal, its not just about themselves, its about understanding the entire picture and both sides of the story as much as possible. For you to understand his frame of mind is not about ridding him of blame for his choice, its about allowing you some scope into why he felt that way, why your Father tried to kill you, did kill your family and himself, all out of the blue and too you, with no reason.

His reason would have been the anger and guilt of humanity itself, making a decision he had no right to make, and take the lives of his family with his own in order to save them ever seeing such acts of humanity for themselves, ending up with the feelings of such pain as he did. There was help there for him, he just either didn't know it, or the half arsed so called professionals just didn't know how to help him, because they're too ignorant to ask for help themselves, instead would have tried to tell him the same stupid things they tried to tell you, "what about you" and so forth. These statements would not off helped him one bit.

Your not screwed up batgirl, he is your father, and blood is much thicker than water, even though he tried to kill you also, you still have that father daughter bond, which cannot be broken even in death. You have the right to hate him, however; to hate is a response to your inner emotions, and whilst hate is very valid, to find those emotions that are fuelling the hate are the same emotions that will help you to find peace within yourself again. Nobody can ever forget, that is impossible, and to forgive is also not mandatory in any event, because lets face it, he still tried to take your life, however; for you to find yourself again, discovering those emotions that fuel your hatred are the key to atleast calming yourself.

And your absolutely right though batgirl, in that now he has passed his illness too you. Maybe not as bad in some areas, but worse in others, but still you now suffer the very thing that took his life, and the lives of your family. PTSD is a killer, and people just don't seem to understand the absolute toxicity of the illness, or outcomes. I would truly like to thank you though batgirl for coming here to discuss this... for yourself, and for all those who read it, may hopefully learn to get help before it is too late. You have much healing ahead... no doubt, and I will be glad to help you at any stage you require.

I would also like to thank you Batgirl as your presence has Anthony opening up to us more within this thread. He is reliving it and feeling it. He is having to look at it again and on a deeper level as he tries to help you understand. All that will do is keep him strong and finding areas he has to keep in check.

Anthony, I don't think therapy ever ends in some form. It has to be hard putting this out and going through it again even with better understanding and knowledge now. You are doing great too doing this and glad to see you doing it. You are facing a hard trigger now aren't you? But you are pulling this back up to help another. You are doing wonderful.

Thanks veiled, much appreciated. Your right, therapy doesn't ever end for the severity of trauma endured to have PTSD. When you think it does, is when your PTSD takes over once again IMO. It is dragging up pieces for me, pieces that are generally easily talked about for me, though having to relate them gives a new perspective.

And once again that leaves you with just a little more to learn about yourself in the process. Complicated bit isn't it, again you are doing great and showing us that the healing process cannot be stopped or ignored. We have to keep at it... Both of you are doing amazing here.

mad props to you for wanting to continue to heal. Not everyone makes that choice (or series of choices). I know sometimes I dig my own heels in about wanting to work through stuff personally... let alone talk about. But I am glad that we are all here to support each other. Keep coming back and chat it up!