Anthony,

I understand your reasons for the above statement, but any program where a human being is forced to do something so intimate and personal would have a tremendous failure rate. I know if someone told me that I was going to be forced to go into therapy, my first reaction would be 'Make me!'. I think that's gonna be a pretty universal reaction. Or people would make something up just to get it done and over and no help is given.

That doesn't even take into account the legal and ethical considerations. Plus the basic human right to privacy.

Offering is good (as long as it's not some half-assed effort). But one of the thing that too many humans have fought for since time unremembered is their independence and freedom. You try to force someone to do something (especially if they don't want to)...you're going to have a big fight on your hands.

Just my opinion.
Lisa

Both of you are correct. As Anthony said, if the counseling is obtained early on, literally an ounce of prevention is better than a ton of cure. And as Lisa said, if it's forced, it's already a failure. They have to be willing for it to work. Counseling is not like giving drugs. Give someone Prozac and it will do it's thing no matter how willing they are. But if you force the counseling, it's not the hard headedness that men have that builds a wall, but the common sense of "if they are going to force it on me I'll fight it!"

Like food. Let's say you hate cabbage. No matter how good it tastes, will you love it and appreciate it if you are forced to eat it? How would you be forced? Ball and chains? Incarceration? Just like with forced counseling. Unless you have them incarcerated 24-7 for the duration of the forced counseling, thre will be no progression. And when you incarcerate someone for counseling, that's brainwashing and very similar to the re-education camps the NVA had. "We will hold you prisoner until you learn that you agree with us even if you really don't, and even that is not a promise you will be free." What if they resist while incarcerated? Punish them? That only makes their belief that they don't need it even more real to them.

I believe soldiers need to be forced into counselling, or another word for it within the military, "ordered" to attend compulsary counselling with people who know when their being BS'd, people who know those that are just dishing out the "right" answers to get out of it quicker, etc etc.

The problem with not being forced into fixing this problem at the stage of prevention, is the cost for something that has no cure. PTSD is becoming a huge burden on many countries governments for compensation and benefits solely to do with the military, let alone all the civilian matters of MVA, rape, abuse, torture, etc etc etc... it is getting out of hand primarily because of the increased exposure all countries are now measuring from United Nations global conflict resolutions. The facts are, it can be prevented if gotten too early enough, or likely fixed whilst not a neurological imbalance, and IT IS the only way at present to lessen PTSD as a burden not only on all Western countries, but also the people who are suffering this illness to begin with.

If the word got out to soldiers/those who are looking to enlist, that if they deployed overseas there is a 50% chance of obtaining a non-curable mental illness that will hurt them, their families, the remainder of their lives beyond reproach.... well, we all know what would happen to enlistment rates, and it is already happening because retention is not possible due to the high numbers of mental illness on return from veterans alone, let alone those in the civilian sector now coming to the forefront of discovery and being recognised for disability due to the illness they now have from being raped two decades ago.

Countries will suffer IMHO, are suffering actually, and the only way I see at present because there is no cure for this, is that potential sufferers are forced into an area they don't want to be in order to hopefully lessen the rate of diagnosis.

I fully am aware the consequences of forcing someone to do something, however; when forced to do something and given enough scope and depth in order to achieve the end result, people will eventually come around, do what they have to do in order to be free of the forced issue to begin with. It is all mental, and mental swings both ways. People do not listen, people don't believe it will happen to them, and they are all wrong. PTSD is becoming a major issue, and you can see that solely from reading the news and simply looking at how many people are coming to places such as this forum, all diagnosed or trying to deal with someone diagnosed in their life, needing help after the fact, instead of fixing the issue before it developed into PTSD.

We are all going to be in more trouble than we know if this continues... uncontrolled PTSD is dangerous, and thats a fact.

Ah, now THAt changes things Anthony. In the US military it's called "psychological debriefing" as in many instances details can be lost in the stress of battle, and those can be details intel wants. They do it in a humane manner with the very thing your speaking about as the goal.

Unfortunately not all get it as the resources are quite limited. So it's pretty uch saved for those in extreme conditions, like USN-SEALs, SpecOps, SF, etc.

Anthony,

I understand what you’re saying about ordering military that are returning back from a front line position to undergo counseling or a debriefing. Even police, EMTs and fire rescue have similar things when they’ve gone through something above and beyond the usual for their job.

But I ask this: What about those of us who have not been or no longer in the military? Do you want to use the same required counseling standards for us? Or to use myself as an example-my initial trauma happened when I was ten. I didn’t remember it for years. It wasn’t until almost 30 years after the event that the stresses in my life caused my symptoms to go out of control. Where do I fall in this plan? Yes, I am in therapy…by my choice because I want to heal. Others may not want therapy and choose medication instead. Or choose to ‘go it alone’.

Here’s how I see it. It all comes down to a choice of how you want to live your life, how badly you’re willing to work to heal and what quality of life you want for yourself. These are words that you have said again and again on this forum…that it’s a choice to heal. Well, if it’s a choice to heal (and do everything that goes along with it), then it’s also a choice not to.

Also, if made to take therapy, there is no guarantee that the person made to go will be the active participant required for help to be affective (too many people would expect the therapist and/or medication to solve all of their problems for them) AND do the hard work on their own that is required to have any degree of healing and learning to live with PTSD.

Forced therapy is a no-sum gained proposition unless you’re in a field that it can be required (i.e. military, police, etc.). When it comes to dealing with humans, there are too many variables to count.

I’m sorry, but what you’re proposing is reminiscent of eugenics. This was a program of forced sterilization of men and woman starting in the early part of the last century and was most popular through the end of WWII. It was so popular in fact, that the Nazi’s adopted the practice in the early 30’s. The people who were selected were ‘feebleminded, insane, criminalistic, epileptic, inebriate, diseased, blind, deaf; deformed; and dependent’. I’m sure if they’d known about it at the time, PTSD would have been added to the list.

Forcing a person into therapy violates their right as human being to make their own decisions and choices. Couching it in the terms like ‘for the greater good’ is a tried and true way to open the door for abuses of people to start. When a plan starts with the idea of ‘Forcing someone to …’ the plan is dead wrong from the get-go.

Again…just my opinion.
Lisa

In essence if you have to force it they will fight it. If they don't fight it, then it's not forced. A wet vs. dry situation, if I may.
I feel if it's offered, peopeple will likely accept it. What you can "force" (though that's not a proper term) is to at least brief them on what they went through, how it can affect them, and then offer them resolution.

Boy, if I had any idea what I was going through and going to experience, I'd take such an offer up in a heart beat! I just want a good life. And right now, I'm living in my own hell.

Basically Marlene, in your circumstances you should have been counselled at age 10 after the trauma. If you where counselled at that point, and I mean counselled to the point where you have talked it all out, you understand what has happened and grieve the trauma itself, you would not have likely got PTSD now from the remainder of your life stressors. That one unresolved point is what caused the chain reaction, simply awaiting the catalyst in life to throw you right over the edge and allow PTSD to become fully developed and formed in the mind. Its a scary thought that most of us could have avoided having PTSD "IF" we knew then what we know now.

No child wants to go into counselling, so you force them into it, regardless their wishes. Sorry, yes its abrupt, its meant to be. People actually will do things when forced if they are progressively made to feel that the forced act is within their best interest, regardless what they think at the time, they will come around and they will help themselves, if for nothing more than to get out of having to attend regular counselling. Forcing a person to do something can and will actually work if done correctly, and if the counsellor is worth their qualification, they will know how to lead them into feeling comfortable and ensure they feel that this forced act is within their best interest, and made to feel that, not just think it.

Once again, counsellors worth their weight are few and far between, sorry to say for those with qualifications, but most are useless when it comes to real counselling, they only do what they know from a text book, because they are not mentally tuned to counsel, more they chose the profession for other reasons, not because they are suited to it. Most should know what I mean... it is like putting any group of people in a job, one person is suited to it and will perform extremely well, the rest just drag themselves through the process of doing what they have been told to do, or learnt to do, not actually necessarily suited to the job itself.

You've missed the most important part of the question I asked-the fact that I didn't remember for years. Amnesia about tramatic events is used as a tool for diagnosising PTSD. And when I did remember, I resupressed the memories I do have for another decade. Plus the fact that when those of us in the over 30 crowd here remember how going to therapy had such a negative connotation for so long. Actually, I've found out the hard way, anything associated with mental health still has a stigma attached to it. And I think that the stigma is what would doom any forced therapy programs from the beginning.

Education about PTSD (and all it entails) is going to be the key. Even if you take words like 'forced' and 'manditory' and find nicer souding uphemisms..you're really just picking fly shit out of pepper. For years no one talked about depression, now they have TV ads telling you 'If you have these symptoms...you might be suffering from depression...see your doctor'. Changes do happen. Once a month where I work, they include a health newsletter (one page-front and back) in our pay statements. In April's there was a section about PTSD. I could have fallen out of my chair when I read it. But it's going to take governments getting off of their collective asses and their wallets and putting out information, TV/radio/any mass media ads about it, offering councelling (another point-who pays for the councelling if it's forced?), and a myriad of others points would need to be covered.

If there's to be change, it's going to be slow. Human's don't like their change quickly. Also, there are a lot of people out their who need help with what falls under the general heading of 'mental health' and who's voices ask for the same thing. PTSD is important to us because it affects us or loved ones. But to someone who has another problem/issue, theirs is just as important.

If we lived in an ideal world, when something traumatic happened to anyone there would be early intervention and help given and, hopefully, this person would go on to live a happy, fully life without PTSD. But we live in the real world and unless a person has access to unlimited funds, it's a much smaller chance of the above happening.

You asked if PTSD was preventable with forced therapy...I still say no. Offering councelling services with qualified doctor's, educating the person about the risks they're taking, getting rid of the stigma attached to mental health. Those would work much better. But the caveat that needs to be put in here is that without the cooperation of the individual who needs to be helped, time and resources are wasted. And those could be used for someone that does want help.

Again...IMO
Lisa

You are correct in what you say, no doubt, being that in those days people ignored the very things that society today see and recognise as real issues, commone issues, and not simply a person thats crazy or the like. At age 10 though, its not your responsibility to get yourself into counselling, its the adults around you, noticing something has changed, your different, something is wrong, hence to counsel and find out, whether it initially be with someone you trust in order to get the story of what happened, to help you remember, because amnesia doesn't work that way where you have just totally forgotten, but more you simply can't find the answers at that time, hence why most amnesia are temporary, and come back as the mind wants to reveal the answers, as the answers are still stored in the mind, they didn't go anywhere, its only the minds ability to block or unblock the paths to that information. Swelling in the brain is one method amnesia is common, another is trauma (once again temporary) as the mind chooses to displace the information, not forget it. As you well know though by now, the mind is more powerful than we give it credit, and this misplaced information still feeds negativity into our brain, hence we react differently, hence we still end up with PTSD even if temporary amnesia is at play. Rude... but on the mark.

But you are right when talking about our decades Lisa, but what we did is not a reflection of what should occur, nor is it a reflection of the future. We cannot go back and change our pasts, nor can we change how our parents generation view mental illness... hell, nor even our generation, however; we can shape the futures generations, and that is via adults being responsible enough with children to know if they need to take their kids off to counselling, to get someone the child trust even to find the issue if good enough to do so, but the child must not carry the trauma for decades and end up like us. We can change the future of PTSD if we want, but it must be done now. Ignoring it and saying people must choose to get counselled is not necessarily the correct reflection to obtain the future goal, especially when your talking about children and teenagers. None of them want counselling, so why would anyone ask them, instead if your the responsible adult, you would ensure they get what is in their best interest if in doubt. It is like saying we would not protect a child from something hot, instead just let them burn themselves first to learn.... not how it works. Its too late after a child has burnt themselves, and when assumptions are made that the child will only burn themselves a little, nothing bad, is when the child falls under panic, and ends up dead from majority body burns or the like. This is an example... same end result. We must protect and do what is right for those that surround us, even if they don't believe its the right thing to do, as adults and especially those who have suffered trauma and know the end repercussions, forced counselling is likely the only way we will decrease the issue, especially military on return from operations.... it would surely be cheaper to put all soldiers into private counselling sessions, or hire more counsellors for the purpose and intent to ensure all soldiers are counselled weekly for one year after deployment, minimum 3 months, or where the counsellor feels the soldier has been honest and opened up completely about their trauma.

We can prevent, but we cannot prevent if the option is left solely to those who DO NOT know any better, or DO NOT know the consequences of their actions, nor the full extent. You cannot understand PTSD unless you have it, however; do you want the to get it or do you want them to avoid it?

Just my opinion....

Putting children in the mix puts a whole different spin on things. At least for me, who has been through having a child in therapy. When my daughter started hurting herself and saying things like 'If everyone I love is going to die, why should I stick around?', I would have done anything, given anything, paid any price to help her. Part of the price I'm still paying because of the almost three years of stress and fear that myself and my family went through with dealing with this was part of what caused my PTSD to kick into high gear. Would I do it again-knowing what I know now, knowing what I would have to go through? In a heartbeat and more if needed.

Yes, my parents should have seen that something was wrong with me, that something was different. But when you don't know what to look for...I could point fingers all night and it won't change a damn thing. We were taught to be afraid of 'strangers with candy'. No one told us that trusted family friends (or family) were just as dangerous (or more so) than strangers. Again...now that these issues are being brought out of the dark, so to speak, they can be addressed. But even if my parents had seen something was wrong and wanted to do something about it, there really wasn't anything to be offered during that time. Now there is and that makes all of the difference.

The connotation I got from your initial poll was that this forced councelling applied to adults. Again...you hit a sticking point there. How would you propose forcing an adult to do something they don't want to, don't think they need, ect? Short of damn near incarcerating them, I really don't see how it would work. But I'm also a proponant of having the choice of how I (and others) decide to live.

When I taught school, we would teach children as young as three about 'bad touches' and 'good touches' and telling a grown up if someone touches you in your private places. I didn't even hear the word molestation until I was almost an adult and the meaning wasn't fully understood until later. I agree that educating our children and their children and dealing with situations that arise is as close to prevention of PTSD as we're going to get. Educating adults is a much tougher nut to crack. But at least things are starting to change.

BTW-not rude...truthful.