This thread is a global hot topic, and I will warn everyone now, please be mindful of what you say in response, ensuring your opinions are stated as such, and no member attacks another member because of their opinions, which they are entitled. This thread will be heavily moderated by editors.

I don't want people to avoid global discussion, but are encouraged to participate to help with your healing, in that to discuss topical issues within the world is to help self esteem and confidence in ensuring you respond appropriately, not aggressively or attacking another for their opinions.

The War In Iraq

The war has been ongoing since its inception in 2003, where the US made a decision against UN support to invade Iraq, and I do say invade, as that is the word the describes what occured as they did not have permission to actually enter the country itself.

Now, after a conversation with veiled yesterday, I was enlightened that she had no knowing of what has really gone on with the war as she cannot watch the news because it triggers her symptoms. When I told her about President Bushes statement last year, admitting that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and even admitting that Osama Bin-Laden was not the man responsible for the 9/11 attack on America, she suddenly felt quite ill. These are undisputed facts now, admissions by President Bush within the world media circuit.

What has also come to light, is that the initial satellite images provided by the CIA where sent for authenication, all of which failed authenticity tests and had been manipulated by computer programmes to show things that the satellite did not actually capture.

President Bush admitted that the CIA has secret jails, in which the real mastermind of 9/11 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been held, and will face prosecution. Still, undisputed facts which have been made public by President Bush himself.

Now, for those that are US citizens, and maybe fail to see where other countries now look very much down on America as a Nation, you may start to understand why. Yes, this does not say the world looks down on all the citizens themselves, but definately the nation as a whole, and more importantly, the political level of the country.

America has used knowing false information the entire time, especially to try and garnish support in the first place to invade Iraq. They used this known false information in which to then drag other countries into the war as allies, all levels believing there was a true purpose to this. Well, after 3 years and countless lives lost, it was all a smoke screen which the truth has finally evolved for nothing more than America to take control of the oil fields within Iraq, being the main objective in the first place.

If America wanted to go get Saddam, they should have just said so, as no country would have really disputed those reasons for the acts and crimes he has committed against his country. I think he would off had countries lining up to help actually for that one. But what they did was use 9/11 and the impact of that act to garnish support from their citizens and allies in order to invade a country for nothing more than power. That power being to control the oil, as America is the largest buyer. Do the math.... America is the largest buyer, so why pay a fortune to continue buying something when instead you can makeup other excuses to go get it and take control of the asset, then pay a much lesser fee, which means greater profits for the country at the political level...

When you look at all these facts that came to light last year, and they are facts, from the very mouths of the political moguels who told the complete opposite initially to invade the country, what do you think other countries would now think of America as a nation? It is very much hand in hand with the political backlash of the world against America, even American citizens now also against their own countries political level for what they have done to their country, and the world as a whole.

John Howard here in Australia will not win the next election now, very very doubtful, as whilst he was consumed in the initial lie, and not knowing the real facts, as I doubt even Bush knew at the time, but he still supports what has now started, in that he will not remove our troops from the lie, instead leaving them in the face of danger for nothing more than an outright lie that was told to the world. John Howard has taken our country from billions in debt, to now no debt, we own the country again, and would have continued to be Prime Minister if he kept his very commonsense approach to running this country, but it seems old age is getting to his decision making abilities, and trying to blind the public and control the public like the US attempts, none of which works here. So on that note, I think we will have a new Prime Minister here next year, all because he blatantly refuses to continue using his commonsense and get our troops out of the lie that has been pulled over the worlds eyes by the US political arena.

So... what do you feel about what you know, or even don't know, about the war in Iraq? IMO, all countries should be getting the hell out of the country now, last year actually.

i feel it is very unfortunate to have been handled so badly, and there is no right thing to do now, if the us pulls out, it is going to be even more pandemonium than it is now, and if we stay, we are going to keep losing soldiers and innocents for a cause that has gone awry. i voted for Bush, i would do it again, i don't agree with everything he has done, though. all war is unfortunate, the root always being that someone feels superior to another race, creed, religion, etc. and try to hold power or death over them. we are all people of this earth, made by God, given our own free will to accept Him or not, and people should respect each others differences and similarities as such.
cathy

I too feel it is very unfortunate Cathy, in that so many lives have been taken for a cause that was all a mask of lies and deceipt, one of which there is no benefit as I can see that helps human beings in whole. Saying you would vote for Bush again Cathy, what helps you come to that decision?

I voted for Bush not because I thought he was the right man for the job but because the others were way wrong for the job. Having worked all my adult life in government I've learned it's not a battle between the political parties but rather a battle between the very proud weathy and the very guilt ridden weathy. In the US you can only run for public office with BIG BUCKS which leaves the majority of the good folks out of the running. It's like an old guy told me at a voting booth several years ago when the question was asked by the new media that was there asking about voting along racial and party lines. The old guy turned to me and grinned and said "they don't get it, It's not about race or political parties. It's about trying to figure out which one's gonna screw you the least". WISDOM. As for the war, they F***ed up going to Iraq instead of just going after Osoma (however he spells it) and his bunch. But now troops and resources are commited and Iraq is about as F***ed up as it was before so do we just pull out and let whats left of the good people fend for themselves or what. I could give a rats ass about what the rest of the world would think (US weak, whatever). The US needs to take care of the US and not police the rest of the world. We got our own problems. And NO I would never vote for Hillary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Aussie vote don't count.....:p

I feel that this war is built on lies and misdirection WMD which havent been found, there has been so much money and lives spent fighting for a cause that is not shared by the general public I hate to say it but I feel it is a war similar to Nam and that the americans and their allies dont have a chance they have the firepower but not the drive. It was a war started to get Saddam and then after 911 God rest there souls it became a political empowerment a cause to root the people together to build moral which happened but now ther have been to many unnessasry lives lost on all sides may be it s time to let the country go back to its oe=wn civilwar and get out while we still can save as many lives as possible, it is after all only property, I dont know a view from a canuck remember we live in igloos and wear toques

Ok...I guess I'm gonna put my two cents in as well...Remember though, just my opinion here...mixed with soem facts. of course there is a long and complex history to all this as well and I'm not sure I can do justice to it...

Saddam Hussein was, beyond a doubt, a terrible person, an evil dictator who killed his own citizens if they were opposed to him, and systematically violated their human rights.

But, what many seem to forget is the fact that that didn't seem to bother the US before, as the US supported Saddam Hussein and, indeed, helped him get into power. There is a famous photo of Donald Rumsfeld cordially shaking Hussein's hand (I believe back in the 1980's, can't remember the exact date though)

Also, during the early 1990's, after Saddam Huessein's forces were ousted from Kuwait, I believe the Iraqis tried an uprising, which Bush, the elder, said he supported but turned his back on. Naturally the rebellion was crushed by Hussein, and God knows what happened to those people.

Of course, the sanctions that were imposed on Iraq (and here, the international community as a whole (at least the UN Security Council) i sresponsible, didn't actually hurt Hueesein and his thugs as much as it hurt most of the Iraqi people who were unable to get even the basic medical equipment, for example) At any rate, th elikelyhood of Hussein obtaining WMD was low, given the severity of the sanctions...That doesn't mean, however, that he did not try...

As for the current mess, I beleive it was not authorized by the UN Security Council, though some (as Bush and Blair have done) may argue that UNSC Resolution 1441 gives implicit authorization for the use of force...Still, for all intents and purposes the action wa sillegal under international law...

In terms of merely going in there to get rid of Saddam Huessein...again, that is not permissible under international law (state sovereignty etc)
The US Administaration, as well as the Brits apparently, used false intelligence in an attempt to scare the world into support of r the war...Of course, after the terrible events of 9/11 it is understandable that Americans would be scared and more on edge regarding security...however, as many Administration officials, and indeed, the president himself have later said, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Which begs the question, why did the US then invade Iraq...the resons given have changed many times...from attempted links to Al-Qaida, to liberating Iraqi's, to democracy etc...Sadly, the US seems to have lost focus in terms of getting the terrorists who were responsible for 9/11...

Now in terms of pulling out...I agree that the US should pull out...but, at the same time, you can't just go in, f**k up the country and leave; what about all the damage, and all the innocent lives lost, not to mention the lives of US soldiers themselves?...Ok...I could probably go on and on and on on this topic but I'm gettign tired ...so I'll stop there for now.

What bites my ass about this is the fact that sooo many people are dying and just how many have PTSD from it now?? As all governments, mine included, people army and all, are no more than a "resource" to be used up... I feel like governments could give a rat's ass about their own people's lives and put no worth on human life..

that greatly disturbs me...

bec

Funny reading the paper today, as John Howard thinks its somehow ok to get involved directly in US politics and attack Obama (I think his name is) because Howard backs George Bush for some stupid reason, as he is in deep also in the political arena with the Iraq issue. John Howard has now lost the majority of favourtism here in Australia by the things he is doing off late. The man is getting senile, for sure, with some of the stupid things coming from his mouth.

Speaking of stupid, America is now being fed intel that Iran is supplying weapons to the Iraqi freedom fighters to fight against the coalition, with talk obviously surrounding whether the US is then going to attack Iran also. A funny comment that was made referred directly to the Iraq situation, in that the US invaded Iraq feeding false intel to the world, and now the CIA and other organisations are feeding similar intel, all unconfirmed, to the US in order to provoke war against Iran.

Let me just say for those who are not in the know about Iran and fighting, in that Iran is the one country on earth you do not ever want to attack. Their soldiers have fought since birth nearly, and each generation is the same, born and when walking learning how to shoot and fight in war. Iran has nuclear weapons, all of which they ARE absolutely without a doubt willing to use and have told America previously, outright; that if they come into Iran at any stage they WILL use nuclear weapons against the US. I am hoping so much, that the US do not act on this in any manner nor be convince that going into Iran is the only alternative. If this happens, you could 99.9% believe that the US is going to get nuked as a result, even elsewhere in the world if others get involved. I was stunned reading this today, near fell off my chair, that the US would even consider such an act or contemplate it, and even provide any opinion on actions based on unconfirmed intel. Have they not learnt a thing from Iraq? Nostradamus predicted that the next world war would commence in the middle east, and Iran is the one country in the middle east that WILL start the nuclear WWIII. Not that that means a great deal, considering so many of his predictions never occured, and then missed a whole bunch of major events, more prominent than what he had even listed as historical... but the general prediction that it would eventuate from the Middle East... well, I wonder at times.

I think that enough is enough about the war in Iraq. If our NATO allies are not willing to help i.e. France and Germany. We should start pulling our boys out and let the UN take over. We are losing to many young men and women. Regiments are worn out and exhausted, the turn over in replacements is taking to long, and being replaced by troops that are not up to standard, the Territorial Army (UK) and National Guards units. It is quite clear that this is slowly becoming another Vietnam and we are getting even more deeper into this Abyss. We have 30,00 British Troops in the south and although it is a quieter sector, casualties are mounting daily. Due to the fanatics. Our own regiments have been cut to the bone due to amalgamation of regiments and defence cuts. Our navy is now a joke, we have more warships lieing idle than at sea.
Bring all the boys home and concentrate on Afghanistan, that is the main trouble spot.
Scott

Got-damnit Anthony, I think this thread is a sht-stirrer!

I read through about 3/4 of your initial post and it sounds like you have your facts straight.

I feel compelled to write my damn experiences over there, but I'm not going into all the details because it would be too damn long and painfull. I will note that rumor spread (May 03) that the war was over, but I did not see that... I saw more casualties and the innocent children injured are ABSOFCKINGLUTELY THE WORSE:crybaby:
Everytime I think about them I break down, even now as I write this. I feel guilty in a way supporting a military machine that has caused so much undue suffering upon the innocent and a lot of times I feel this PTSD is a sort of purgatory/punishment for that, regardless of even though I was initially deceived into believing this war was 'just.'

Off and on over there, I didn't wear my uniform as sort of a protest. Nobody cared though I guess because I was my own boss there. And I stopped ducking down underneath a running helicopter to retrieve another casualty (I would get briefly chewed by the crew chief but I didn't care)... now that I think about it, that's the first time I was ever suicidal in my life. I was lucky to be out of Iraq so quick... because the powers that be realized that there was no primary mission for me there; identify biological agents used in WMDs. When I got home I was like in a culture-shock. It was euphoric and I thought that I could put all that sht behind me and move on.

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" = "MISLEADING ACCOMPLISHED!"