Thanks for your answers Scott and Anthony.

Iraq, veitnam(sp),spanish war,second world war, or what ever one you can bring up,its all the same and it will happen all over agian. It doesn't matter who the superpower is or has been , when the boss wants to send a message the young men and women will go. Rules of engagement are for the winners and they chose to apply them,,,,just my two bits....mj

There is a saying by the old Prussian General, Von Clauswitz, just before Waterloo, which says. "War is the continuation of a Country's Foreign Policy by other means".
Agreed we went into this war with good intentions, to rid the world of a vicious Dictator. But why in 1991 at the end of the 1st Gulf War, did we stop!
The road to Bagdad was open and clear of all enemy troops. Their best troops, The Republican Guard, were wiped out on the road to Basra. We could have ended it then, British and American troops could have been in Bagdad that evening if we just kept going. I know, I was there and I was bewildered as to an order that did not make any sense. Then all of this waste of lives now wouldn't be happening. End of Story. Ask George Bush Senior why he decided to stop.
Scott

Even though it wasn't Bin-Laden at that time they wanted, if your talking about Bush senior as to why they stopped, my guess is because of their family ties as business partners to the Bin-Laden Group.

"Bring all our troops home, let the Iraq's sort the mess out. Afterall they are killing each other and getting our boys killed into the bargain. Enough is Enough."

Scott, I agree that it is tragic that all those soldiers (British. American etc) are getting killed in a war waged based on lies...the way Bush and Blair (and others) play with the lives of their own sodliers and their families is disgusting.

Having said that, I beleive that those who helped bring this mess about should also help to clean it up...And also, any time a country is invaded, no matter how 'noble' (gettign rid of dictators, bringing democracy etc) the reasons, the fac t is that the people, under international law, have a right to self-defence and that they will fight those they see as occupiers...just my two cents

It appears the consensus agrees it SUCKS! Let's stop beating a dead horse...

Mac, I agree that this is not productive in terms of changing anything...but does that mean it shouldn't be discussed at all?

Blair announced today that he is bringing 2000 troops home before christmas, the first lot come home at Easter. The British forces are handing back control to the Iraqi Army in the south.
I wonder if Bush will do the same in Bagdad?
Scott

I am sorry, I do not want to offend anyone here. I will just tell my opinion without telling that is is the only right one... (Hah, a new skill I have to learn).
I do not like muslims in general and iraqies in particular and consider them to be our primary enemies. I thing it would be a right thing to do in 1945 to try a nuclear weapon on them., I mean all arabic countries. It was not done, so, we have to deal with the situation. I consider it absolutelly wrong to send Americans to fight and die for the good of the country enpopulated by the emenies of Christians, Christian culture, and Christian tradition. I also feel that it is wrong to send any kind of help to them. If they want to live their own way, they must rely on themselves only.
If Bush would destroy this whole region, he would be my hero. However, now we do not know who else has and wants to use the weapon of mass destruction. So, I would leave those things alone, withdraw any help, and do not let them go to the USA and other civilized traditionally Christian countries.
But, here is another thought crossing my mind, if I try to think that iraqies are still human beings and thus have all feelings and thoughts of human beings. I had participated in the Russian Resistance movement in early 90-s, and I do know what the fight against the unrighteous government is. My PTSD is coming from a brutal street fight I was involved.
However. Yes, is we could overthrow those "democrates", and bring our country to the constitutional order, thet would be a great victory and a tremendous triumph. But did we want anyone else to come and do it for us? Especially the super-powerfull country, which, of course, wants its influence in our land rather than good for our people?
The answer is: absolutelly no. If at this time Americans would come for "help", and kill the Kremlyn Alcoholic (Yeltsin) with his fellows, and make the person _they_ find right a president... No, even if they would come to our land and started to make their order...
I am sorry for saying this, but many of us would become a suicidal bombers, as Russian tradition of fighting teaches to give your life for your land.
I am sorry agains, and, again, I DID NOT MEAN to offfend anyone here, or to hurt anyone's feelings.
Anthony, if you find this post unacceptable for any reasom, please feel free to delete it.

Linda, your post is your opinion, and others must respect anothers opinion here. I know what your saying above... but do you believe it really has to do with Iraqies themselves, or more a select faction of them? Its like saying I guess, that all Australians are bad, where there are always a selection of the population in which will do bad. This would apply to every country within the world. Every population has factions, has proportions of bad people, some more than others, but to label an entire type of people... well, maybe a little prejudice on that one IMHO.

The good thing is Linda, is that I highly value and push people here to express their opinions, and then on the other side, others respect anothers opinions. Well done, and glad you are participating in such topics.