too many people love themselves more than anybody else already. hence people thinking it's ok to just take what they want from others-physical or emotional. we are to love everyone as much as ourselves, so we are also to love ourselves, but not to esteem ourselves higher than another.

how can you say that religion is close-minded? when you have not been a part of it? what do you site for evidence? not denying that there are some cults and close-minded people out there,(I once knew a man that was so narrow-minded, he could look through a keyhole with both eyes open!) in the name of religion, but there are many that know their mission in life is just to live, and share God's love, hopefully to show others the way. i could say that i think all athiests are closed-minded too, but it wouldn't be true, because people are individuals, and you can't really lump us into a category like that.

by the way, it is hard to share these things with y'all not knowing the tone of my voice, lol. i am not angry, or feeling argumentative, rather happy to see people thinking on these things.
cathy

Faith is available to you whenever you want it. Sure, I had moments when I thought for sure He abandoned me, left me to whither and die....but it was I that rejected Him. No matter how angry, how anti-religious you are, He's still there for you. I don't go to church or read the Bible. I don't go to Sunday School, but I talk with Him everyday. I find that it helps to talk with Him about things that I can't talk with anyone else. Since He knows me inside and out, there's no point in lying or embellishing or down playing....I just say it. For some reason it makes me feel better.

at one time I believed so much it scared me cuz I was headed to hell {still may be } ,, ,, another time I hated God and any thing to do with him ,, ,,
,, But mostly I hated me and every thing I had become ,, ,, ,, much later I feel very different ,, I am OK with God and even more I am OK with who and what I have become since I quit all the drinking an druging ,, Beatle

PS,, hang on Brother

I totally agree, in that religion is a form of cult, just seems an acceptable one. Seventh Day Adventists are known to be cultish, yet accepted. Scientology the same, yet accepted for some silly reason. Where does the line get drawn at cultish behaviour vs. commonsense where people really do think for themselves?
A nice selling point Cathy, but that as mentioned above, is cult like behaviour IMHO. Any church who accepts such statements like what you just made, is cult orientated, not free thinking. If you as a Christian are telling me that any person who doesn't have faith in God must be ignorant fo science... please do explain, because I really do want to hear the cult logic to this one.

Beliefs and faith are personal, nothing to do with god. Believing in god in one thing, believing in yourself another. Believing in whether the colour pink is actually pink is another belief. Believing grass is green, is a living organism, and everything in life itself, is all personal, and not related to god or any other religious icon. These are facts of science, not of god or relation of science to god or any other being. Science contains proven and unproven theories. God, is an unproven theory, just like life after death. There are no FACTS to this, only personal beliefs and personal faith. What another believes or has faith has no bearing on any other person.

Right vs. wrong has nothing to do with faith; beliefs yes, faith no. Plenty of people who believe in god commit crimes, plenty of people who don't commit crimes. Why? Because they believed they could get away with it! They believed it was the right thing to do at that time! They believed it was the wrong thing to do, but choose to do it anyway! All personal beliefs, along with hundreds, if not thousands more.

Spiritual belief becomes part of a person overall beliefs, but when it becomes cultish, is when a persons overall beliefs are nothing other than spiritual. A minister uses commonsense in life, and does not believe 100% in God being that this mystical all powerful entity can fix anything. A minister knows that if he cuts his wrists with a knife, he will bleed out and die, and God is not going to help. So even the smartest minister would not have 100% faith in God to save them or take care of them, because if they did, it would be cultish, not religious.

I must actually disagree with this, because with what I see from working with people every day, is that those who attempt to put all their faith in God or other religious entity, don't actually do as well as another who gives themself faith, and believes in themself, and believes they can beat what they have. Sorry, but those I work with who are strong in religion don't do as well as those who aren't strong in religion, because they are often more determined to fight for their themselves, opposed to sitting around waiting for some belief to come save or help them. I must say, factually looking at people that I help, you couldn't be further from the truth mac.

Those who strongly believe in religion might put on a brave face, but when they look for therapy, that face doesn't cut the mustard anymore, and they fall apart, all often doubting their beliefs in God or other religion, because they haven't helped them as yet.

Oh, thought... there are even people here who are here, now with a different frame of mind about their own prior beliefs, for nothing more than discovering themselves that if they don't action things, if they don't take control, if they don't start believing in themselves more than any other, they are not going to get better, as they have already wasted decades or more waiting on religion or their minister telling them god will save them and take away their pain, blah blah... yer, once their dead and had a shit life and may as well have just been dead to begin with. Screw that... I don't believe in all this stuff, and I healed myself from belief in myself, faith in my own ability, not anothers. How... mental toughness is one key to it. The ability to mentally talk myself through things, pull things apart and fight for what I knew existed... my life awaiting me. God didn't help one bit... sorry!

ok, anthony, you misunderstood that statement. i was asking what he based his assumption on that christians were ignorant of science. i never said , nor never will that anyone is ignorant of something, that was my very point. He had made that statement, and the one about people basing their religion on how much money they had. NOT ME. i am not in a cult, lol, there are some out there, agreed. you feel free to believe the way you do, but you seem very defensive, maybe even a little offensive to let me do the same thing.

I wish it was that way in all church's. I was raised Roman Catholic, went through years of Catacism (If I spelled it wrong sorry). I was forced by my Mother to continue in Catacism even after my Confirmation, when most other kids got to stop the learning process. I have questioned what has been taught to me since, well about 8 years old. Pissed my Mom off repeatedly. But....I realized that prayer got me really no where. I would miss confession on Saturday and refuse to take Communion as taught, only to see Hypocrites lined up for communion that were not with their wives at the bar the night before, if you get me. I really don't know exactly what I believe in, I believe in positive energy, which I guess is similar to prayer. But...I am a "show me" kind of person and sadly, I have never seem God or Jesus. Sorry.

Sorry Cathy, I was exerting my opinion over my interpretation of what you said in relation to religion and science. My mistake, not yours.

Religion and money though... the USA screwed that for their entire country, by putting that simple statement on money, "In God We Trust". A little cultish don't you think? Kind off makes it difficult to allow people to make their own decisions when they look at money every day with that statement upon it???

most people don't even know it's on the money, and the ones that do, don't care. do you really think a thing like that would influence someone? i think not. someone of any religion could use that slogan with no problem. it was a noble effort when done over 200yrs ago, but it's certainly not true any more. how many times when you are spending money, do you actually read anything more than the denomination (amount) on it? hmmmm? and no, it's not cultish... this country was founded on christian values, but freedom of religion. it is just a reflection of that. i wish it would have some effect on people, but it doesn't. mac was talking about people only believing in God if they were financially well of, i assume. very not true, though. wealthy people don't feel like they need or have time for God very often.

I am a religious person. I believe in God, I'm active in my church and I tried to raise my children with the same ideals. But once children are grown they must make their own choices, mistakes and so forth, and decide for themselves what to believe. I made my own decisions as an adult, it's helped to shape who I am and I'm not about to deprive my children or other adults of that right to make up their own minds. I strongly disagree with "evangelizing" or whatever you wish to call it. Honestly it's quite annoying to be told you should believe in God or have faith, and that your life will be better if you do. The truth is, your life may not be any better with God in it. That is a myth. There are many God-fearing people who have tragic lives. First and foremost, one needs to believe in themself, and help themself, not simply rely on God or the church. Many people use the church as a crutch, relying on it totally and without questioning, and I believe that's wrong. For me the church is an addition to the life I have already created for myself. God helps those who help themselves as the saying goes. Especially someone with PTSD such as my niece, hates to be told "give faith a chance". My husband would like to force her to church, and has learned the hard way that it doesn't work. She needs to sort it all out for herself. And if she nevers comes back to the church but is happy and has a good life, then I am happy too. I couldn't ask for anything more than that.