I was not going to touch this thread... Really. But I about fell out of my chair laughing thinking we must know some of the same types/people (young silly guys). Thank goodness some of those fences pulsate so to release.

Listen I have barely skimmed this thread admittedly as I have seen the pro/anti gun debate so much I want to puke all my life. Our laws are what they are. Don't like it, fine you have a right to speak out and our young men died for that, I think they called that our forefathers... It is a right here. Not a human right by peoples' means outside but it sure as hell is an American one. I grew up with a gun in my hand. And personally I do not like to use them and when I feel rough I remove my safe and have. But it is my American right to own it as much as it is to worship what God I choose, that is America. Freedom. But shit I see channels where babies are carrying guns I would never touch in other countries. Where in the hell is the outrage there? No it is the naughty "cowboys". The ones who must take classes and have a license and be registered with serial numbers and the like.

Dumb asses that get them and do stupid shit well, what country does not have a frigging nut job get them if they want to get them? So they are legal here? Point being what? You outlaw guns and everything is well? Shit, back home and just now here in KS you can carry legally in you pocket, purse, car... To me it seems maybe that carjacker, home invader, and so on may think twice as they have no clue who is armed.

Simply put people who have no issue breaking laws sure as hell won't care if they break a law carrying a gun too. Law abiding citizens will be unarmed and left to think all I have is my knife in the kitchen. Personally I would not want to show up to a gun fight with a knife. Outlaw US arms and only the outlaws will have them... My 2 cents.

BTW take my hunk of steal with no A/C or what ever (not worth a life no matter how low a life form you are), but come in my home where my babies I gave birth to are, it will be my ceiling you see for the last time.

Won't debate this but my opinion.

Trust me this is not our issue... Go hit the streets here and see who is of age to VOTE and would be denied a gun license. That is our problem!

I also had no intention of posting in this thread so I'm not going to really debate it. I don't like guns but that's beside the point.

I don't think guns themselves are the major problem...I think the gun culture, often promoted or not promoted but ...(what's the word I'm looking for??)by films like "Rambo" etc --at any rate, the gun culture that has evolved (and obviously not only because of violent films) is what almost makes it acceptable (in the minds of those who criminals) to commit violent acts using guns...

Of course, social problems, where people don't have access to basic needs, are one of the root causes of gun violence, IMHO. But this problem is not only America's problem. True, here in Canada it does not happen as often, but we have a somewhat different social safety net and also a much smaller population!!!

Children in various parts of the world, where conflicts have been going on for a long time, and where poverty runs rampant, often join armed groups, and often cite seeing movies like "Rambo" as having helped them decide to join...(Obviously this is way more complicated than that, there is international law to be considered, kidnappings of children etc you can't blame the children though) What I am trying to get across, though not very coherently, is that there is a culture of violence and militarization--one that valorizes violence, revenge etc. That culture, combined with the frustration caused by the various social problems is what contributes to gun violence...Are some people perhaps a little paranoid? probably. But again, I imagine that's not only the case in America...just as long as guns are kept in places where children can't reach them...Sorry about the length of this, and I have no idea if it makes any sense...just my 2 or so cents...

the neat thing about living in the US is that you have the option of owning a firearm for whatever purpose you want. If you feel that you need one for self-defense, you can get one. If you feel the need to carry one on your person, most states allow some sort of concealed-carry provision (there are some exceptions).
The Supreme Court of the United States (the final stop in appeals) has ruled on several occasions that local and federal police agencies are not responsible to keep the citizens from harm. Reading accounts of hurricane Katrina show that law enforcement response may be too late, too small, and that officers sometimes have their own interests and safety prioritized above those they are supposed to protect.
Read the newspaper headlines, there is plenty of evidence that there are evil and violent people out there that would not hesitate to harm you or your family-for financial gain, to feed a drug habit, to fulfill violent fantasies, or for no discernable reason at all. It is a mistake to think that these people are rational, reasonable, or even think like you do.
With these facts in mind, it makes perfect sense to me to take responsibility for your own safety. In the US, it is possible to do this.
Anthony--earlier you asked a question, should you shoot a man that pulls a knife on you and demands your wallet? The answer is different for everybody and there are innumerable variables in the situation. The reactions of a young man with military training who has no valuables in his wallet will be very different from that of a elderly retiree who has just cashed a pension check, or a 98lb woman who is at home in the middle of the night in rough neighborhood where there has been a series of rapes reported over the past month. A firearm, practice, and training will allow the pensioner and the woman to defend themselves from a violent threat. If a person is in fear of their life, or the life of a loved one, I believe that shooting the assailant dead is perfectly acceptable, even if the bad guy is "only" using a knife, baseball bat, ice pick, chainsaw, bowling ball, whatever.
On the other hand, no one is required to defend themselves. If you would like to leave your personal safety in the hands of the government, the local constabulary, you may do so. But I am willing to bet that the residents of New Orleans are probably going to stock more than a few days of food for the next hurricane season, and I read that gun sales in NO have been very brisk lately.
VT was a gun free zone-no guns allowed on campus except for cops (and crazies, and anyone willing to break the law). There was recently a bill in the Virginia legislature to allow concealed carry weapon license holders to carry on state college property. The bill died before it was voted on. A single ccw holder could have stopped the massacre, or limited it to less than the 30+ it ended with.

As far as understanding the American (gun) culture, I recommend a blog written by a South African immigrant, Mr Kim du Toit:
www.theothersideofkim.com
I swear, he's more American than I am (and a much better writer)

That, right there, is insane. To serve and protect? To keep the peace? That is the whole point of law enforcement! If the Supreme Court has actually ruled that, then I firmly believe that society is ****ed.

Yep, I'll stay in Canada!

bec

Agree.

What is happening to this forum, by the way - I wrote a long reasonable responce and it all disappear...
Have no time to re-write, but basically I agreed with Johny Longtorso and added that a baseball bat is just as deadly weapon as a gun, and that defending my property is a matter of dignity and honor, since I had work so hard to get whatever I have now.

The police in the small towns in the USA are doughnut eating Barney Fithe's! They couldn't protect or serve a cottin picken jello mold, much less a human being. Their sole purpose is to hand out speeding tickets and make sure people's tags are not expired! Sorry! That's just the hard cold facts. Sorry if anyone is a small town cop. I hate it when those guys and gals have to really face a crime or drug bust or something. Last week the Joplin police expended 40 rounds and didn't hit a lick. A fourteen year old juvenile delinquent with a stolen riffle hit two cops in the chest dead eye pete! Good thing they had vests over those chubby bellies! They had to chase the little shit down on foot! Before it was all over, two cops were in the hospital for broken ribs and four cops were in the hospital being examined for over exhaustion! The county deputies, Hell! You're lucky if them guys have time to even show up. They have to be Mr. Billy bad ass with all the damn meth cookers!!!! They try, there are just not enough of them to be all over the place at once. I call the police COPS, but they really are not constable's on patrol. They are people with common ordinary lives just like all the rest of us and most often are very unequipped to deal with the crimes before they occur. They are not GODS! They are people.

Just a story to share: When my X left me, I was alone with two little girls. I was depressed, weak, and sick. I've never told this before because I been trying to forget. I was alone one night. One of my x's friend's found out that it was a weekend my daughters were with their dad. I did not have a big dog or a gun. I was laying in my bedroom only half sober and this bearded scruffy middle aged guy, whom I did not recognize at first, quietly broke into my house and overpowered me. I had a butcher knife under the mattress of my bed for protection. I heard him. I picked up the knife and he looked strait at me and laughed! I was petrified! I was shaking. But I tried to protect myself. It was to no avail. He violently R*p*d me then forced me to drink whiskey until I passed out. When I woke up I called the police. They asked me for a discription. I gave them one the best I could. They actually asked me if I wanted to press charges! I said yes. they said, "Well you'll have to come down to the station if you want to press charges." It was like they thought it was my damn fault!!!!! So! Am I glad my husband has a safe with firearms. Hell yea!!!!! That will never happen to me again!! And I hope that that guy, whom is free and walking the streets will be dead soon and burning in the nether regions of a devil's hell for what he did to me!!!

Buy the way! If I had had a gun, and knew how to use it, I would not have been shaking. Half sober or no half sober. He would have not been walking the streets to do that to someone else!!!!!!!

I'm so sorry for saying that about police officers. Not all of them are like that. Most of them are fit and do the best they can to protect and serve. I just get a little wacked when people do not understand the necessity for protection in a big geographic country like the USA where there is more space than people to cover it and more criminals than police to stop them. Most likely, my husband will never have to use his fire arms for our defense. Most likely they will remain a toy for him to play target practice with. That is a peaceful thought as most people in America are law abiding good people. But I am glad I live in a place where if there were a threat, my husband could protect me. I do not go out at night unless someone is with me. I stay in will populated places during the day. I keep my doors locked at night and have a big dog. I feel alot safer in life now.

I am also sorry if I caused anybody any bad discomfort with my story. i just thought it would shed light on the use of fire arms for self defense.

Dumb Quote by me: "The police in the small towns in the USA are doughnut eating Barney Fithe's! They couldn't protect or serve a cottin picken jello mold, much less a human being. Their sole purpose is to hand out speeding tickets and make sure people's tags are not expired!"

Please! If anyone is a police officer, I am really sorry for what I said. It was a dumb thing to say. For that matter, my brothers used to call police PIGs. I created an acronym for that. It is: (PRIDE - INTEGRITY - & GUTS) I think it takes a very special person to be a police officer. They go through alot of bad stuff and I'm sure feel real bad alot of times because they couldn't get somewhere on time to stop a crime. They sure would face it head on if they could. But like I said, they are not gods and can not be everywhere at once.