That is exactly it Kathy. By all means I am not telling anyone to leave their partner, I am just using that as an example about the jolt required sometimes. As Kathy stated though, some will just drink themselves to death. I nearly did. I flipped out end 99 and just out of the blue left my first wife and kids. I have no idea how I didn't die in the following six months of that year. I pulled myself out of it as my room mate really slapped the shit out of me to look at what I was doing to myself. I partially came good, though was still pretty much on a rampage. I had no idea all that was PTSD, but it was. Went through a myriad of relationships to follow, thinking I was doing something wrong with the type of woman I was meeting. So I went the opposite to what personality I was normally attracted too, hence the second wife ending in failure also. I was ill then worked hard on myself for years, found a new and improved me who was actually honest with myself, honest with others, had to right a lot of wrongs in my life, remove a lot of self guilt and so forth. Kerrie threatened to walk or me get help earlier in that relationship, which was the jolt for me to really get cracking and work on myself as I thought that is what was best for me at that time. Unbeknownst to me though is that she also had her own serious issues which she never really worked through, so I was at a place far better than she was. That is how you can help yourself but then do you choose to live with a destructive person in nature? All these are choices of both sufferers and carers, risks, evaluations, constant analysis and risk assessment if you like.

Sometimes a jolt works, though as you know, it can bite the person on the backside at the same time if they are also not prepared to heal any issues they have, being the carer that is. If a sufferer heals, then all around them must heal even the pain that sufferer has caused them. It is like someone who cheats in a relationship. If you forgive them then you do so and you do not use it against them the rest of their life. If you did, the relationship would end. PTSD is no different. PTSD causes all concerned a lot of pain, and if the sufferer heals so must the carer and even family. Apologies are often just not enough by that stage, where we must learn to forgive for the illness and providing the sufferer is working on themselves and learning how to manage the illness, we must forgive and work through that pain also for a healthy relationship to continue.

Some give the jolt and it just bites them on the backside. Some give the jolt and it works. Some give the jolt, it works, but then forget about healing their own past or PTSD related pain which defeats the purpose entirely. It really is a risk, it really is often used when unfortunately at the last minute, and things have typically moved to irreparable by that stage. The most important thing though is that it is a joint effort of healing, not one or the other, but both must heal all their pain to come together at individually mentally healthy points in their lives.

I feel that if I said to him thats it I have had enough he would do himself in! I dont think I could bear the thought of being responsible for him hurting himself? At the end of the day this would be the reason?
Only last night he said to me he waits for me to come home every night from work?
I am living my own life as much as I can but I really needed him to help out with work today I just rang him but he was so groggy on the phone I was so cranky I just wanted to rip his head of!

Jen, nobody can tell you what the right choices are for you, only you can decide those things yourself. Those of us with PTSD will say those type of things though to make our carers feel guilty, it is merely part of the emotional abuse cycle really. If it works, use it basically, so he is. If you live with it, then he will keep doing it. Maybe you need to start making him realize that if he doesn't begin pulling his finger out of his arse and doing, instead of talking, then maybe you just won't be coming home every night. He will try and make you feel guilty, trust me on that. I did it myself for some time until I got my kick in the arse.

Thanks Anthony
I have decided that one step I am going to take is get someone else to help me with the business I just cant rely on him at the moment!
I am going to tell him this tonight.
Whether or not this will push him deeper down his hole that he is in or not time will tell.
I am getting a bit to stressed over this EVERY day with him not helping me.
And we cant afford the two of us falling apart!
Just something else he does know what buttons to push as I dont like conflict I never have I will sooner walk out of the room than argue with someone?

You said it yourself Jen, he is manipulating you because he knows what buttons to push. Because we know our partners vulnerabilities, does that mean we should exploit them though? No..... so why is he allowed to get away with it? You allow this Jen. Carers are often too easy on their sufferer, simply allowing them to get away with things to avoid the conflict. At the end of the day though, all that occurs is that all concerned are typically unhappy and become set in a mundane relationship and environment.

You know what to say hey Anthony?
It certainly is a mundane environment especially now the kids have left home?
I have just spoken to him on the phone he is really concerned about our finances ( probably because he put us in the situation) he is all doom and gloom.
I suggested to him how about he lets me worry about the business until he feels better? He didnt put up to much resistance. I will get someone to help and he knows when he is up to it he can come back in to work (I wont hold my breath)
This may make or break him I dont know? It really is up to him?

To be totally honest Jen, we have a large part to play and have some responsibility in the way that people treat us.

If you let someone treat you badly then they are likely to continue to do so. Right from the word go I have not allowed Anthony to use his PTSD as an excuse to treat me badly nor any other reason. If he did I would leave and remove myself from an abusive situation...that is what I own...the power to decided whether I allow it to continue to occur if it happens. My life is worth more than being treated like that. If Anthony was to tell me he would kill himself if I left that in my opinion is emotional backmail and manipulative.

There are times when Anthony has been sick and I have been more accommodating to his needs and tolerated more than usual but I still will not accept him being mean or nasty and I hold him accountable for his actions. He also has his own commitments and responsibilities which I consider him to be accountable for the same as I am with my own. However, I am happy to help Anthony if required if he is not well but I will not take on his responsibilities permanently due to his laziness.

Both your lives are uniquely up to yourselves individually, as you are first an individual then a relationship (partners) supposedly. Not really about knowing what to say Jen, more just telling it from experience. I look at my past quite honestly, knowing where I was a shit and what my faults where, and I can admit them without issue. I use them to learn from each and every day now in order to better myself. Denial is a wonderful thing, we all do it. Your partner has been doing this for longer than me now, yet still lounging around doing nothing. See my point? We make choices as individuals on whether we heal and learn to manage PTSD, whether we force ourselves out of bed and into life or not. He is responsible for his choices just as you are also for yours. He chooses to manipulate your vulnerabilities and weaknesses, you choose to allow him to exploit them by walking away and not causing conflict. You have gotten better I must add though, in that atleast now you go and have a life of your own and no longer wait for him to fix himself, because that just isn't the case at present. Again, he must want to heal and must want to learn how to get back into life, how to manage PTSD and his lifestyle.

Who wouldn't lounge around all day if allowed? I would... thats for sure, but I choose not too as I know it isn't productive for my health, mental or physical. I force myself into life each day, and once I get going I am ok providing I manage my day and not ensue myself with stressors that I know will overload me and make me ill. Choices Jen.... its all about choices, both carer and sufferer.

Anthony. We are not all the same though. How do you know he is not doing this because his PTSD is just that severe and has yet to meet a therapist who can reach him? Who would not lounge all day if allowed? Me. My hub does not pull me out of bed ever. If I am ill he lets me be for days and brings food to bed. This is not often but I have learned something here. I have bad symptoms, worse than many, yet I have seen if I can be this bad why would others not be worse? Just seems very conceivable others can be worse than me and I know how I get and I do bust it. Maybe it is not always a choice, maybe it is a matter who can reach us and show us hope we can come back out?

I don't agree because of the past history. When Jen was ill, her husband suddenly prung into action and took over the business, though as soon as she was better again, back to bed her went. History is a big factor here veiled.... and bed is not an excuse when ill with PTSD. Just because it feels right to lay in bed when ill from symptoms, doesn't mean it is right. Laying in bed for days at a time is not helpful to helping oneself learn how to manage PTSD. If symptoms are that bad that you physically cannot move, then something else is wrong. A sufferer can force themselves out of bed with symptoms and to help themselves by going for a walk in the morning. This is actively taking control of oneself, because I guarantee that after the fact off going for a good 5km+ walk, which equates to atleast an hour walking at a very easy pace, the body will feel better which also helps increase one's mental state near instantly. Exercise increases blood flow, blood flow increases mental capacity and ability, which then reduces the feeling of illness, sickness, symptoms, thus one gets going and does something during their day. Again, it comes back to choice. Bed is not the answer though, sorry.... I will never say to someone they should make a habit of staying in bed if ill with PTSD symptoms, because it just isn't an effective method to help the sufferer at all. They must get up and become active to help themselves reduce symptoms.