As the subject deviated, I split this thread from the following : Feeling So Alone and Need Some Support


KM, you raise some interesting points. I know for a fact that, here in Canada at least, domestic violence is far more common among military families than in the civilian population. Now whether that is because domestic violence is simply more reported on military bases, or is a result of the military mindset, or whether PTSD and combat stress has anything to do with the statistics, I am uncertain. There is a bit of controversy over it. I know that when my husband suffered combat stress, he was abusive to myself and the children. However, he was never abusive prior to the combat stress, and has not been abusive since treatment for it, and it has been about 30 years now. Though as you say, perhaps it is simply the extreme anger and rage causing the abuse, rather than the illness itself. In any event, the bottom line for me is always, the abuser has a choice and they control their actions, regardless of stress or illness. They must be responsible for their actions.

I would say here in Australia that domestic violence is less in the military than the civilian populous, however; I would say it is reported more within military families as it is purely just not condoned here. If you abused your partner here and the military become aware of it, you will be punished by the military here administratively, which can hurt all in its own little way. Domestic violence in Australia is an issue, however; it is not as accepted here as it is within some parts of the world either.

KM, I think your points are very relevant, and whilst harsh as you say, they are accurate IMHO. Well said. He owns the abuse, regardless PTSD or not, he owns his actions. PTSD is a cause but that does not give a sufferer the excuse to abuse, it simply gives them a reason as to why. What they then do about that is within their control individually. I was emotionally abusive, never physically, when ill. It was my partner who was physically abusive to me. PTSD does not negate a person becoming physically abusive though.... as I believe, those attributes are either there or not within a person already.

I will be totally honest with you. I will say that the abuser owns their actions, and this one is no doubt going to get some flack. But it is proven that some partners, being the receiver, certainly provoke their partners to abuse them in some way. It is like my emotional abuse that I gave out, it would have provoked my partner in some aspects at times. Whilst she owned her physical abuse to me, I owned my emotional abuse to her. When I removed being emotionally abusive she was still physically abusive. Some times people may just not be compatible is what I am trying to say, in that two people can be abusive together, however; a more compatible partner may then remove abuse completely, both physical and emotional simply because one or both are not provoking the other in spite, pain or frustration. Habits forms parts of this and other factors. A person can heal, learn and grow all they want, but if both parties aren't achieving this then it can often become a waste of time for a relationship, as one will still tip toe round or be frightened from past behaviours, etc, which may then re-provoke the abuser to just adopt their old ways as atleast then the other person knows what to expect.

Abuse has a vicious cycle, and it must be broken on both fronts, not just one or the other, as both have pain that must be dealt with and healed if the relationship is to survive.

Well. My opinion, from my experience - family violence is indeed reported far more often on the base. However. Not because it occurs more often than amongst civilians, but because it's harder to hide. Much more accountability, much more honesty. You get caught being dishonest and your in the shit.

Jim.

Well you may get some flack Anthony as you say, however I agree with you and have found this to be true, with Jim and myself definitely. I also saw this in my social work profession, more frequently than not. There is a definite difference between those who abuse each other due to extreme stress, alcoholism, lack of communication skills and other factors, and those who abuse because they are predators. In the case of predators, I would say that one party is indeed a victim, however in many cases it is a two-way street as you mention. Counseling and healing for both is definitely necessary. Jim and I did so, I don't believe our marriage would have survived otherwise.

Yep, thats about the size of it in any military organisation. At the lower level you may get one warning when caught being deceptive, though even that will have an impact on your promotion. Get caught doing wrong, deception, deceit or anything that could bring the military to disrepute at a higher rank, your arse is grass for the remainder of your military history. These type of things in the military are where people sign, seal and deliver their maximum rank and much more. A solider may think they get away with something, but within a military environment spouses talk, and it always gets back to the chain of command eventually. This is why I would typically disagree that domestic violence is higher in the military here in Australia, but I have no idea about
America as domestic violence is on a much grander scale their than here.

This is really interesting, I never thought about it affecting maximum rank, but that totally makes sense. I grew up on military bases, and one of my friends had a father who beat his wife, and then after he left his wife, beat his new girlfriend. He remained in the military and as far as I know, never got charged with much. I always thought that was very unjust. But he started out with my dad, I think they were in basic together (Right, Dad? You know who I'm talking about...), and Dad became a senior officer eventually, whereas this guy, I can't recall, but I know his rank was very low and it stayed the same for years. It never occurred to me before though that his low rank might have something to do with his behaviour.

I know with the Corps it definitely effects their promotions, at the very least. Guys will get passed over time and time again if they have domestic violence in their reacords. Depending on the situation, results can be a dishonorable discharge, which I think is appropriate. Unfortunately, the strict policies on it can be a double edged sword for the guys. Example & true story: an E-5, married, living on base, having a get together at his house. His wife and himself are both drinking. Wife gets mad and tries to stab him with a kitchen knife. When he tries to take the knife from her, he cuts her on accident. PMO arrives, he gets slapped with a DV and it goes in his jacket. I'm not sure how that turned out in the end but the incident is still on paper with the military.

Also. Many women are vindictive. They will get upset with their husbands and give a false report of DV or adultery ONLY TO get their husbands in trouble (adultery is also something the Corps has no tolerance for) so I'm not sure how accurate statistics are on military abuse.

Correct Evie. That was the main reason.

Jolene - good points. All true. Yep, spouses can be vindictive. Believe that was what Anthony and my wife were driving at here. Kathleen and I both abused and provoked each other, that's a fact. Kathleen will attest to that. Then, we both smartened up. Worked together on problems. Hence we are still married.

Jim.

Oh really? I didn't know that. I would have assumed that would be just be a matter of personal belief or whatever. That's not a rule in Canada, at least I don't think it is?

Holy I just googled it and it says adultery in the US military is an offense you can get court martialed for. Wow. It's not like that in the Canadian military though.

Yep, Kerrie and I certainly fell into that routine also Jim.... the only difference, I worked through it and ceased it for the destructive behaviour it was, Kerrie didn't, hence why we are no longer married. Kerrie had it though before she met me.... I though I could change that, I too became destructive due to my own PTSD.... and well, again, results are the present. A relationship just is not easy if one or both parties are abusing the other.