Nicolette,

Thank you for bringing about this point.

In an endeavor to try and understand the people we love, we're often neglected. We're left drained and feeling hopeless. It's difficult to create a balance when the situation itself is already so imbalanced. We all need support, a listening ear, and sometimes a really big hug. I know I'd love one right now.

And, your point about rationalizing our own neglect is interesting. I think we do it because we truly want to understand and help. To me, it almost becomes addictive. Which becomes the problem. We think that if there was something more we could do, a little more we could learn, or understand, that it would somehow help the situation. To see someone so crippled by an illness - that's just so difficult to grasp.

I think what nyc meant regarding making assumptions regarding co-dependent or dysfunctional relationships is that we may even conclude to ourselves that there has to be something unhealthy going on to *want* to stay in such an imbalanced relationship. Because, in the end - isn't it about how much one person can take? If one keeps giving, the other keeps receiving, even putting up with abusive behaviors, well, that *is* unhealthy. But making such statements is by far easier said than done. Because, when love is involved - there's is a price. But, how much is too much?

Pastrychef, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I can't remember which thread you posted it on, but, please feel free to email me, as well. It can be difficult meeting new people (and trusting). I moved here close to two yrs ago, and didn't know a soul. To this day, I spend more time of the phone with my friends back home than out trying to meet new people. I just don't have the energy anymore!

Ah. That could very well be, well said. Though I do believe that serious pondering about why one is in a relationship in the first place is healthy and necessary. Wondering about whether one is co-dependent or dysfunctional is a good thing in my opinion as it leads to self-examination.

What I see in many carers is a lack of being able to tolerate negative emotions, actions or behaviors. (I'm not referring to abuse.. more like flashbacks and what not.) This is where I see a problem. The carer rushes in trying to fix it and make it all better. Of course they get burnt out doing this repeatedly and frustrated because it doesn't work. Us sufferers NEED to learn how to cope and deal with our all negatives. It's very important. So begins an unhealthy cycle.

Was just thinking about this as a contributing factor in the price carers pay.

bec

I have to agree with Bec. There is a lot said about what a 'Carer' should do in order to assist the 'Sufferer' but the 'Sufferer' has, just as equally, a responsibility the relationship.

Before I go on I want to make it clear that at this time I am only discussing intimate adult relationships.........

It has been said here that when entering into a relationship a potential carer needs to understand a PTSD sufferer and decide whether they can accept what the consequences of living with someone who is ill is about. True but, I strongly believe, a PTSD suffer entering into a relationship is also a consenting adult and should also assess whether they can realistically contribute to a relationship. There are two people involved in a relationship, not just one and there has to be compromise and acceptance both ways. Both parties have to be fair to the relationship.

Personally, I can accept PTSD as an illness and am willing to do what it takes as a 'Carer' but I will not accept abuse whether it be direct or projected when PTSD is used as an excuse. That is the 'Sufferer's' responsibility to the relationship....to deal with their illness. Pull away sure, have some time out, be negative, shut the world out for a little while but it is not right if a 'Sufferer' inflicts cruelness and abuse on a 'Carer', who is supposedly someone they love, and believe it is acceptable.

In my world there is a big difference between being ill/negative (PTSD) and being abusive.

I also wanted to say.......

A 'Carer' may need to accept that the 'Sufferer' may not always be available but a 'Sufferer' needs to learn to try and verbalise this somehow so the 'Carer' can understand. Some of what I have read here refers to a 'Sufferer' just checking out of the relationship, which I guess is fine if that is what they need to do for their illness, but they also have to be fair to the 'Carer' and tell them it is due to the PTSD so a 'Carer' has an understanding. A relationship is a two way street.

Well said Nicolette. As a sufferer I know that I am not ready for a relationship and I have no right getting into one under these circumstances. That being said, I have a hard time understanding some of these guys who haven't at least had the decency to say something along these lines to their 'carer' girlfriends. To me that is a form of abuse. JMHO.

Take care of "yourselves," Morgan

To clear up misunderstanding, I meant in that particular post and not the thread in general. That one post was about 'couples' as in boyfriend and girlfriend. I was trying to say I was only discussing that side of relationships in that individual post.

(Note: I wrote this message (which turned out to be way to long!) after reading just the first page of this thread - I see now that some of what I talk about here is also addressed in the 2nd page, like wondering about codependence/disfunction in the relationship.)

I met Steve about 10 months ago, and he told me had PTSD early on. But it has been a steep learning curve for me, especially because he can act fairly normal in most ways until you know him well. He does not get help for his condition, at least not regularly. He is a Vietnam vet (we're both in our 50's), and apparently only went to the V.A. about it beginning a few years ago when he started having a problem with nightmares and flashbacks. That situation improved to the point where he stopped seeing the therapist. He never tried medication, tho the therapist recommended it. I never really got a clear picture of his history (his memory is horrendous, and I question his awareness and understanding of the situation anyway), but I always suspected he was more of just a late diagnosis than a case of delayed-onset. His cognitive problems (which took me months to have a small handle on) seem too entrenched to have just begun, for one thing, but I certainly don't know. I am a bit of a compulsive researcher, and i did read quite a bit about PTSD and the brain on and off (usually when we had problems), but it was not until last week, when we had a big problem, that I really thoroughly looked at this site and its boards. It has been extremely helpful - though i am sad to say i think it might be a moot point for me, because I think my relationship might be over. I'd even been feeling hopeful that finally maybe now I'd be able to love him better, feeling a better understanding of his illness.

Last week, after a week of no contact from him (after having been in touch every day prior to that for the last several months), I got an email from Steve saying that the pressure involved in everything was too much for him, that he couldn't live that way, and so he was going to live without the pressure and see how it went. (We'd just gotten back from a trip, and the final straw seemed to be an argument about his impatiently and aggressively exiting the airplane, which I saw after the fact as a PTSD thing, which is what sent me back to the computer and these boards...) I don't know if this is a permanent break (and i know not to ask, not yet, anyway - he probably doesn't know for sure anyway), but I think it probably is. It was an unusually clear communication from him - how I wish there had been others giving me an idea what was going on. I should have known he was feeling pressure building up (I was feeling a difference in him for several weeks, a detachment which hurt me and was so hard for me), but I didn't quite get it until he said it.

I have been having a hard time not blaming myself for this. I mean, I knew he had the illness, and while he didn't help me out with understanding it (first of all, i think he's in some denial about it and the major ways it affects his life; second, I don't really think he would or could understand or explain it anyway), I knew enough to know that this would cause withdrawals and shutting down - still, I had such a hard time not taking it personally, not wanting more from him. I wanted him to be someone he wasn't, and I couldn't accept him the way he is (and understand that he couldn't change it), much as I tried. I wanted to spend more time with him. I wanted to do more things together. I wanted to make plans. I wanted balance, give and take, and I only now fully see that much of the time I will not be able to have that with him. I got upset if he finally would make a plan and then would not follow through, or would want to leave sooner than planned or expected. And I didn't understand that every time he disappointed me, he felt horrible for having done so.

I feel like I now finally understand things, thanks in part to posts like the ones in this thread and others on these boards, but that now it is too late. I don't think I'm going to get another chance. Maybe I wouldn't be able to behave or react too differently anyway, just given who I am, but I know I would like the chance to try. Some things that help me understand are the following messages from other posters: don't take anything personally other than his love for you; their minds work totally differently from ours; they might say or act like things are okay, maybe every day, even when they're not; you cannot expect them to be a rock of support for you; their stressors may change daily and you or they can not predict the timing or type of stressors.

I tend by personality to be a carer. And I've questioned that in myself. I do wonder if this would be a healthy relationship for me anyway if it continued. He was not able to communicate well, and was not receptive to ideas of treating and managing his PTSD. (At least I knew not to talk about this much, but I did mention that i'd read about some therapies that might be helpful, if he was ever interested. He said if it ever got worse, he would consider it.) I was unhappy and stressed out and depressed out a fair amount myself during the 10 months of the relationship (especially the last couple months), often feeling I had to tamp down my natural impulses, and spending a lot of energy trying to figure out was he was feeling and needing, knowing he needed me to be okay and not feeling free to express myself when i wasn't okay (or expressing myself and then being upset when he wouldn't really "hear" me), knowing I couldn't have what I wanted but trying to have it be enough, because I wanted him. It's not like we'd been together when he got this illness (in which case I would not question a continued commitment to him). Going into a relationship knowing what it would probably entail - well, maybe that's not the healthiest decision I could make for myself anyway.

Anyway, I also learned from these boards that it is important to have a lot of support, both the sufferer and the carer. I don't think either of us has/had that. Even though my relationship is probably over, it has meant a lot to me reading your posts and feeling the same sorts of issues and pain in you. Thank you. My heart really goes out to all of you/us, sufferers and carers both! Thank you for this forum, and for letting me share in it.

Nicolette wrote:
"A 'Carer' may need to accept that the 'Sufferer' may not always be available but a 'Sufferer' needs to learn to try and verbalise this somehow so the 'Carer' can understand."

Wow, if only my boyfriend could have done this, it would have made a huge difference to me. My therapist tried to help me see that he couldn't, just because of who he was, and because he didn't have that level of self-understanding. But Nicolette is right - I bet he could have learned.

I am a very self reflecting person and i can only agree with what Nicolette wrote. This forum helped me a lot to actually vocalize the things i need my husband to do for me to make it bearable for me. For instance: "Please let me know where you go when you leave the house" (he just used to be gone and not answer his cellphone when i came home from work) "Please let me know when you gone be back" (Just showing up drunk in the middle of the night). I am glad that i could get through to him on these aspects , because it used to drive me crazy with worry when he did this an regular bases.

I guess i am trying to say that communication is very important to get through this time.