Cowgirl,

If you think I have a ton of work to do.....You should have been around 20 yrs ago. You would have been scared shitless of me back then. I have come so far in my healing compared to what I was like. Don't ever doubt that.


I will state this again. None of you can ever possibly know how we feel and what we go through. So that point is pointless IMHO!!!!! Unless you have PTSD you couldn't possibly understand, or even come close to understanding.

I agree PTSD is NO EXCUSE for bad behavior. But it also depends on what behavior we are talking about. Pulling away, retreating, shutting down are survival modes for all involved. IMO!!!!

Screaming, calling names, not making compromises, throwing temper tantrums, ect are bad behavior and shouldn't be tolerated.

Time constraints on healing just is stupid as far as I am concerned. It's like telling someone with cancer that they only have 9 weeks to get better. Doesn't happen people. When stress hits, and we become overwhelmed with everything, getting dressed can be a major issue for us. Then try to have a relationship and participate...Not going to happen if the person can't deal.

This is difficult, and very frustrating for all of you carers. I understand, but you also can't and never will be able to understand what we go through.

I applaud all of you for trying, but you can never fully understand .....

She Cat,
You are right ~ I will never fully understand ptsd (hopefully). But like many others on here, I am trying. I happen to love and care about someone who has ptsd.

He has never been mean, rude, violent, etc. to me ... EVER. He has, however retreated into his cave. He says he cannot handle any type of commitment right now because his job has become very stressful and he is having personal issues with one of his kids. When I have seem him, he is very loving and affectionate (and I am not even talking sex). This is my choice...I cannot handle the affection one minute and then the "dropped off of the face of the earth" the next.

I love this man more than I have ever loved anyone....my ex husband included. Unfortunately his ptsd has taken over right now. In the 4 years since being diagnosed, he has had only a couple of downward spirals. They don't usually last this long, but he has never had this much stress with kids and work before either.

I am just trying to see how others on here define *shut out*....

Sisu

I am glad that you have come a long way. I'd not have been scared of you then, though. I've dealt with convicted murderers who threatened my life, so I'm a pretty tough cookie. Not much scares me shitless. I merely recognize a level of antagonism that you bring to your posts and responded to it, as you seem to excoriate our attempts to understand better.

I may never understand you, you are right. You may never understand me. You are not alone, not the only person who has ever experienced deep, soul searing pain, not the only one who has ever lived through hell on earth, I can guarantee you. As I stated before, NO ONE can truly understand anyone else. All one can do is use skills of empathy to attempt to walk a bit in the other's shoes. Anyone who has experienced pain can also use empathy to attempt to understand another person's pain. That helps to bring a level of understanding. Perhaps that is pointless to you, but you are free not to read such posts, also.

Cowgirl,

I respect your opinion. I will also not get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else on this forum. I choose to read, and respond to whatever I feel. End of story.

I've read this thread with interest and I have a question,cause I'm not sure.

When we had a discussion with my ex, he often seemed unable to answer my questions,and to express his feelings.
I felt like he didn't care, sometimes I wondered if he just understood what I was saying. Such a strange feeling!
In the end I thought there was no use in trying to communicate, cause I had this feeling I was talking to myself and I just pissed him out.

I didn't want to get angry, so I would just wait, and it would take him 2 days to react.
Then he would contact me with thoughts clear, express his opinion about the issue of the discussion and all the things he would say about it would make sense. But there was this delay, hard to understand.

Is it a shut out?

One day I sent him an e-mail (cause phone seemed to make him uncomfortable when it was a "serious" discussion) and expressed how I felt about something that happened and that I didn't understand.

It would take him two days to answer and tell me he was sorry he didn't answer earlier,that he knew it was not nice, and that I shouldn't be angry but he couldn't find a straight answer to my e-mail.

Globally, he seemed unable to tell me how he felt about a situation, and often unable to make a decision (which is logical if he didn't know how he felt about the situation). He seemed to suffer from it.
I thought when he said "I don't know" he wanted to avoid a conversation, and that made me angry, but maybe he really didn't know.

The last discussion we had was very emotional cause I explained him I thought breaking up was better for us, and he told me "I phone you tomorrow morning", "I'm going to spend the night thinking".
Like again he needed a delay to be able to react to what I said. I found it weird at that time.

With hindsight, I realise that when he would tell me "I'm not in the mood" it was his way to tell me he felt like retreating...I would take it like a lack of respect, now I see things differently.

Wendy, you are in chat carers, please remember that.... we sufferers DO NOT come into the carer area and abuse or argue with them, as carers DO NOT come into the PTSD chat forum and do the same with us. There is a clear distinction for a good reason, so opposite spectrum's, experience and points of view are not argued here the same as the exact issues that are often caused in the home in the first place.

Anthony,

Point taken. I will remember not to cross the boundary.

Thanks, Lucky, I can only hope she thinks the same of me. I know I have my moments when she doesn't like something I said or did, only I get to blame it on being a guy and that usually gets me out of trouble! lol

As I read comments from people here I learn more and am able to understand things better. There's so much going on in her life right now that stresses her out, but she still calls me a couple times a day, even if she's just saying good night. We haven't known each other very long but we both feel such a strong bond to each other, I can't explain it. I think it's great that you and your hubby are able to be here and help each other, as well as the rest of us.

Sometimes I just need to vent, but none of my friends would understand, so it's hard to talk about how I feel with just anyone. So I'm grateful that people are willing to share and open up about what they go through.

thanks...

I wanted to highlight this point. As throughout this thread, the language I keep hearing is "bad behavior." Shutting down, shutting out, etc.. is "bad" behavior.

I disagree. It's a coping mechanism. It's not done to hurt anyone. To ignore anyone. In fact it's not done TO anyone. It's simply a way for the sufferer to attempt to cope when the turmoil of their minds are too much to handle any longer.

Is this healthy? Hell no. Not even close unless in very small doses. Is it "bad" or "abusive" behavior? NO. Not in any wild stretch of the imagination. It is a survival coping mechanism that is vital to surviving this cursed disorder. Saying that this is bad or abusive is the same as telling someone in a manic episode that cleaning or making lists is bad. They just shouldn't do it because it hurts your feelings.

Learning new and healthy coping mechanisms takes a long long time. If someone is in the middle of a shutdown coping mechanism, trying to force them out of it is only going to get the door slammed in your face harder. It's not the time or place to address this.

Also putting time limits on this coping mechanism is completely unfair, irresponsible, and ludicrous. Hence why I have quoted She Cat. Her comparison is dead on.

If you, the carer, can not wait till after the sufferers crisis is over (and that is exactly what a shut down is) to discuss better boundaries and learning a more healthy coping skill; then, IMHO, you were not meant for this relationship to begin with.

I see a lot of carers past baggage (previous abuse) being dragged over into dealing with sufferers. Understand something. You are choosing to be with a sufferer. A lot of our coping skills are unhealthy until we learn better. Some never will. 99% of sufferers are NOT abusive. We are simply trying to survive. If you have to have time limits on shutdowns, any type of symptom attacks, then I think you need to rethink being in this relationship in the first place. If you feel this is selfish, rude, uncalled for, abusive, mean , bad behavior, etc... then why are you in this relationship to begin with?

We are sick. We didn't choose this. And most of us are trying to get better.

bec

From a Carers' point of view understanding PTSD takes time and experience. Anthony gave me literature to read early on and even though he emphasised it could be bad, until you go down that road with a sufferer you really don't understand what you are getting into. It also may occur that a suffer may initially be well and then months down the track is triggered and gets very ill. I am sure when Sisu signed up for a relationship with her boyfriend he did not say to her sometimes I may shut you out which could be months on end....if Anthony had said that to me upfront I would have never got involved as, while I don't wish for him or anyone to be ill, that's not the type of relationship I want as, in my world, shutting out is pretty close to checking out of the relationship.

No-one is questioning how terrible PTSD is or whether someone is trying to heal themselves. This discussion was, and still should be about a Carer's point of view on what they can accommodate and what they can't. Whether the sufferers' actions are justifiable in accordance with their illness is a whole separate topic. I am sure PTSD sufferers would not stay in a relationship with a person who caused them daily, continuous, high levels of stress which only made the sufferer worse. It can be argued that the shoe can be put on the other foot and an opposite view point can apply to the sufferer.

The point here was how a Carer can deal with shut outs and for how long a carer can sustain that type of relationship. It is NOT about the symptoms, cause or justification of the illness.

No-one here wants anyone to suffer. No-one disputes PTSD can be hell on earth.

I don't understand why the point is being missed.