Sounds like back-tracking to me!

Maybe instead of Anthony being too harsh you are being too sensitive??

Isn't the forum about helping yourself and discussing issues to learn others experiences and points of view rather than arguing about semantics?

Good grief, Nicolette - didn't sound a bit like backtracking to me but rather clarification of her point as we have been told to be very careful and do. Perhaps you are too sensitive to Anthony being criticized? Just wondering...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Grace.

Honestly, I prefer a site like this one where people post divergent views so that one can see their situation from a variety of viewpoints. It would be utterly useless to me if people only posted "Oh, gee, I'm so very sorry for your awful situation!" I've seen sites like that, and I don't stick around.

Cowgirl, I do agree with diverse and this site does achieve this.... and your point is exactly why I make mention of sympathy several times a year. People come here that are new, they don't go through all the old posts, so some topics are raised every so often during a year to rectify issues as they rearrise, which they do time and time again on a forum.... not just this forum, most forums.

If I didn't bring sympathy back in check as it got out of hand here, then what you mention is exactly what we would end up with.... a bunch of even newer members all thinking its acceptable to pity one another and live in self loathing. No problem with people wanting to do that, go for it, I just do not allow it here which I have every right to do. Forums run on rules, each and every one of them, and you hit it on the head with there being plenty around that cater the sympathetic bullshit some so want from here. Won't happen here.... sympathy is something given rarely, NEEDED rarely, though often people become sympathetic before empathetic. Empathy even has boundaries, in that people with PTSD need to be challenged during their trauma therapy time in order to look inwards. Without these very basics and the foundation of this forum, we would just be another one of those forums that achieve little, market on numbers, and how sympathetic and full of shit we can be.

Not for me.... This forum sits inbetween the hard arse military forums telling one another to "get over it" and the sympathetic forums drooling in each others drivel and self pity.... a little of each is a good mix, along with lots of commonsense, experience and facts. The more of those three are released into this community, the smarter and better we all become, not more depressed by being rewarded or acknowledged as a pity pot.

I think this word 'sympathy' has many social and cultural perceptions that direct how we relate to it. Perhaps, we see sympathy as a weakness? Sympathy implies that someone is soft stroking you, you know the, 'their, their' attitude 'you will be Okay' or ' you poor thing' attititude or even, 'please give me sympathy because I am weak'?

Perhaps, sympathy is hard to swallow when it comes to PTSD and the trauma(s) that have caused it? Perhaps, having sympathy over being physically, sexually and verbally abused for example makes us feel uncomfortable because of the nature of the trauma(s).

I guess to sympathise as it sounds better, it takes the onus away from the person who is feeling terrible and places it onto others in order for them to try to understand rather than the injured party feeling pitied?

Just my ideas.

I think it is very interesting how some words are acceptable in terms of what they facilitate and some are not becuase of the social and cultural labels we are conditioned to think of them in. Words can create our reality.

Spirit x

To all:

My initial reaction to all posts involving this topic in both threads was to totally agree with Anthony. I still do. I see the other points by others about needing a little sympathy here and there, that's OK in my book. But I got it clearly, the reference was to repeat offenders, not occasional posts.

I have not seen other forums so do not have anything to compare with, but this is my place. It is what I have always desired on my journey to have others understand my struggles and share their experiences to enlighten my own.

I have to also say, the initial post did make me evaluate my posts and consider if they were sympathetic or empathetic. I think I tend to always empathize.

I also want to add, I am very sensitive on this topic because my daughter has accused me often of seeking sympathy and stated to just move on with my life. She does not understand or choose to understand what it is like to live this way. So, I immediately react to being called a sympathy seeker. It is defensive on my part; mixed in with the lack of validation.

I also want to recognize the tension I have been observing as very disturbing. I do not handle conflict well. I know this and try not to jump in and fix everything. Sometimes I think we all need to agree to disagree. Not everything on a public forum will be about us because there is a wide variety of people and their experiences. Personally, I respond to threads that I have positive input for and that touch me personally in my own path.

I also often reflect on contributers to this site as we are all doing the best we can on any given day. Obviously, some days are better than others. The opportunity to share with each other is a gift I will never be able to repay for the worth I have of the friends and support I feel when reading and contributing.

Cr*p! I just got the thought I was trying to communicate!

Sympathy is difficult when we have suffered trauma that makes us feel, guilty, causes us to question whether we are responsible for what happened, causes us to dislike ourselves, causes us to shun help, causes us to feel all of the dysfunctional things we can have and do!

Why is sympathy Okay for losing someone (death and grieiving), but not Okay for grieving over past events that have facilitated our struggles?

I am not saying I agree with giving sympathy by itself - I am just asking why we feel it is appropriate in some situations and not in others'. I get the whole tough love stuff! But why do we as sufferes have such a bad time with that word?

I think it is a mixture of what I already outlined and also what our trauma(s) are and were.

Spirit x

Well said Cindy.... your observation is absolutely accurate. This is about bringing wide spread sympathy giving, wanting, into check so that it is only apparent for what it should be used for..... small and limited scope. Death usually warrants sympathy.... enduring trauma at that exact time, often warrants sympathy, neither though require ongoing sympathy because an event happened, instead it now becomes a hinderance to the brain and emotional ability of a person if allowed to be ongoing for any traumatic event within life. Near every person here has "past" trauma, that means sympathy is not required here unless something traumatic occurs to you whilst here, being the day or day around an event. It doesn't keep going for a week, two or a month.... its not healthy to want it or be given it for those durations. Once it is given sympathy has completed its natural course. Everything after that you need to begin resolution, action, doing stages.... the sympathy stage is completed and done.

People continue it because it is a stage of trauma that brings attention in a way a person can be awarded to feel sorry for themselves, as though they are all hard done by over and over. Not the case. Every human endures trauma in life, you cannot get over it, but you cannot get past it or through it if you continue the sympathetic stage of trauma beyond the event itself / day or two afterwards.

Very well said Cindy....

The facts with topics such as this, is people like Herc disagree with something I say. Disagreement is fine, but instead of just disagreeing they then post a thread like this to see whether they will get a majority supporting them, often such things will not and it has nothing to do with me. The reason a majority typically opposes is because they exert exactly what this forum is not about, sympathy. Herc posted this to see if she could get sympathy, see if she could get change. It didn't happen and it won't happen.

I couldn't care if a majority came here and screamed they wanted sympathy to be allowed, I would simply moderate all those members and the forum would continue on. Why? Because other forums cater such things, I do not want this forum to head in such a direction, hence why I keep such a tight control on such destructive things as sympathy.

Rules are rules, policy is policy. Policy and rules don't change just because a majority say so.... they only change if I feel the change would benefit the demographics that I want into this forum.... that is those who want to get on with healing and are ready or near ready to get into the action stages of healing. This forum is not available to those who just want sympathy.... I will moderate or ban such members without question after warning such, as you can go elsewhere to freely and openly get it.

People have a choice, so instead of trying to invoke more sympathy here, attempt to get change or make me feel bad, instead members should just get on with healing and working on themselves, learning what works best for them and get on with doing, instead of trying to control this forum or place their stamp of control upon it. I am fully aware of all the manipulative techniques and tactics those with PTSD try, I have it after all.

How about members cease trying to control the forum or get sympathy for control, and get on with doing for their own PTSD which clearly outlines here through such posts that self esteem is shot to shit and needs work, there is trauma undealt that some want sympathy for to use as an excuse so they can justify not facing it or doing anything about it. I pull no punches with all this....